"I have the right to disagree with your view! I don't feel the need to explain to you WHY I feel that way; whether my distaste is valid, or whatever else you need to know."

Ginx is that applicable to everyone? or only people who call themselves feminist?

"Unfortunately, pretty much everyone I know comes to this sad realisation eventually."

Vanilla why the self disparaging remarks?

You have put forward some interesting arguments.

I often have to deal with people who are doing doctorates or have a doctorate and let me tell you they can be a real pain in the butt to deal with. I remember one episode with a husband and wife with doctorates and I felt like tearing my hair out. Really smart people can be really dumb and not know that they are being dumb.

Like Ginx, Bronwyn and Elka I have to agree with Melinda's comments and will give her the benefit of doubt about a 'grander' agenda. Would the comments have been any different had, say Naomi Wolf written this article?

My politics and atheism are also at odds with Melinda but it is irrelevant.

It is interesting that some posters who argue that the government's role should be to regulate or oversight (as opposed to managing) are the very ones who will protest when the government (in this case Advertising Standards) step up to the plate as they rightly should. It is no different to an oversighting agency who might close down a restaurant for bad hygiene practices ie. the government doing its job.

It is all very well to bring out the "we are all adults and intelligent people argument" but who decides where to draw the line - someone has to. This argument should not be used to support a 'free for all' approach to advertising, otherwise it would be open slather on other issues such as the sexualisation of children etc.

While advertising may be directed to a specific target group, Ads are are in plain view to all, including younger developing minds. We can all pretend that the media has no effect but it does otherwise marketers would not place so much faith in it. The argument that the media is a reflection of society is bunkum to some extent, the media is a powerful vehicle and can and does influence in shaping society.

As an aside, Melinda's comments on Difference of Opinion last year were sound and intelligently articulated and at no time did she push her religious barrow.

Bottom line is what sort of society do we wish to aspire to and what are the images that best fit a society where all members are treated with respect and dignity? Sometimes it is a fine line and as intelligent adults we might not always agree but if enough people are offended enough to protest it might suggest that the line has been crossed.

"I have the right to disagree with your view! I don't feel the need to explain to you WHY I feel that way; whether my distaste is valid, or whatever else you need to know."

Ginx is that applicable to everyone? or only people who call themselves feminist?

....... Really smart people can be really dumb and not know that they are being dumb..."
Posted by JamesH, Monday, 24 March 2008 7:36:22 AM

__________________

Boy! Jamie lad, From your 4th? post in 2006, you got yourself pretty fixated on this topic didn't you?

Pop on out and smell the roses, it'll do you the world of good!

'Really smart people.../.....not know....dumb'? The true dimwit certainly doesn't, that's for sure.

Feminist, schmeninist; who cares! Too many labels, far too many.
I am a 'feminist' or not; depends on how one is perceived or perceives themselves to be.

You clearly are not a 'feminist';...it didn't stop you from replying did it?

I guess you answered your own question.
________________________

"....I'm not sure why you think I'm not supporting your right to disagree with me, unless you want me to capitulate in the face your disagreement? In fact, in this whole thread hardly anyone actually agreed with me. I enjoy that, and I think this issue is one where it's strengthening to battle it out." (Quote: Vanilla)

I disagree. Most of this thread agreed with you, but from an anti-feminist viewpoint!

"..I’m worried that we’re still heading toward a world where advertisers and novelty knife makers alike are forbidden from playing with imagery that’s dark or violent or may possibly offend someone, somewhere. It irritates me when people claim they hate political correctness, but then have a problem with something that doesn't suit their own brand of prejudice." (Quote: Vanilla)

It's not a question of 'supporting my right to disagree' is it?
You ARE rather unhappy that people cannot see this situation YOUR way, aren't you? It disappoints you.

That's life.

..I? want you to capitulate? Haven't I been saying just the opposite?

We take your invitation to disagree
sometimes much too liberally.
Seems some of us, including Ginx,
still echo from a time of Sphynx.

To see violence against women in fashion
is an illustration of logic in ration.
What’s next and where to draw a line, they ask;
desexualisation of children (and men) is our primary task.

Such linking is not crazy,
we’re not intellectually lazy!
Violence against women is just not cool
we reserve our right to use it as a tool …
in justifying choice, getting our way
… public opinion to sway!

A metaphoric club it may be
but close your mind, you mustn’t see.
Listen to the cacophony of swan song,
it signals a better world coming along.

You’re my voice of reason, my symbol of hope.
I’m so sorry I was such a dope.

Looks like this thread has deteriorated into an anti feminist thread again. Shame really.

Unfortunately to all those who hate women who call themselves feminists, we are no more to blame for all the ills of society as do all men, all Christians or any other group.

And yes Whitty, there are instances where 'the pendulum' may have swung too far to the other side through the advocacy of feminism, but that does not negate the fact that change was very necessary and would not have come about without the event of feminist voices. I agree with you in regard to issues in the family court and child protection issues. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it from the sidelines from a male's side.

Feminists are not anti male. There is a strongly held viewpoint that men are not always served that well either.

Just an aside, I laughed so hard when I read Antiseptic's description of 'tribal life' I almost inhaled the fine Shiraz I was sipping. Having grown up in Rain forest South America and tribal West Africa I know that picture is contrary to reality. It's the men who sit around and gossip drinking the local spirit and smoking most of the day after hunting once, twice a week for a few hours. The women work from dawn till dusk every single day, more often than not with a nursing baby tied to the back.

Why do some of you men think that women too want the privileges and choices that men take so for granted that they can't even see how privileged it has been to be born as a man throughout the ages until relatively recently in the West?

Pretty good effort Seeker,

I wonder if Ginx is actually Dr Ginx?

Dr Ginx I was really trying to cheer Vanilla up, I however stand by what I did write.

When I wrote "Ginx is that applicable to everyone? or only people who call themselves feminist?" I did toss up whether to use the term feminist or female. Mainly because in the past I found that it is women who will say what you said; "I don't feel the need to explain to you WHY I feel that way;"

Usually if us blokes try that tactic we get given the third degree. It is not accepted that some of us blokes do feel that some aspects of
feminism is anti-male or that the anti-male sentiment expressed in the past is still evident today.

http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/38333/20040423-0000/www.kittennews.com/kn_mag/08_aug03mag/blacksmith_09.htm