It was St Thomas Aquinas who finally admitted that Christian faith needed to be tempered with Scientific Reasoning.

Further though Aquinas did find difficulty writing a thesis on the topic, his persistence did begin the universal educational system now in use in our Western world.

Regards, BB, WA.

STICKY.... 'In vain' ? :) I'll have to try harder 0_^

I can see the eyes of many an OLOer rolling with 'that' little gem.

I argue the issue, because:

a) Paul did. (Acts 17:16ff)

While Paul was waiting for them in Athens, he was greatly distressed to see that the city was full of idols. So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the God-fearing Greeks, as well as in the marketplace day by day with those who happened to be there.

HOW did the people respond to Paul ? :) aah..nothing is new, pretty much like OLO members respond here..as follows:

"A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. Some of them asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?"

Wellll....I didn't see THAT coming :)

Sticky.. you say Runner "Babbles" (words to that effect) but he is sincere..and speaking purely from the 'faith hip'..I don't think I've ever seen a harsh word from Runner..unlike many who attack him.

b) The Arguments/Evidence is Compelling.

It's a matter of perspective. I wonder how many of those ripping into the Bible, would accept documents which have far weaker attestation...including those secular sources which even refer to Christ, John the Baptist, and Christians from Roman sources.

Although external evidence is strong, and I include in this the archeology aspect, the internal evidence is most persuasive to me.
While I am encouraged by such things as:
i) Bible mentions 'pool of Siloam'
ii) Scholars all agree this is a fabrication, no such pool ever existed.
iii) Archeologists discover....."The Pool of Siloam"
iv) "Scholars" are now red faced, exposed as biased and shamed.
v) The 'bigoted, biases, fairy tale' the Christians believe in...is confirmed.

This pattern is repeated over and over. Hence, I say 'the evidence is...'compelling'. Is it disputed ? of course :) Some people still say the moon is made of green cheeze too.

I don't believe in fairies. I know, let's call monkeys 'fairies'. Hey, now I believe in fairies! I believe in fairies, everyone!

Richard Dawkins said it best: "When you understand why YOU don't believe in Thor, then you will understand why I don't believe in God."

Fairies has about the same credibility as Richard Dawkins

The contributions from Christian godbotherers to this forum range in quality from the intelligent but obscure, to the boofheaded and unintelligible.

I nominate runner's interminable drivel as the most representative in OLO of the latter form of religious blather. At least some of his ilk make an effort to justify their crap, even if only within the self-lobotomised parameters that their faith permits.

david certainly demonstrates the curiosity that drives a search for answers...here its the question of god, and all around us we see effects of same which led to 'man made creations' we now enjoy...car, plane and computer...

to my experience...having been involved in many surgery/postmortems, it struck me that irrespective of how varied the humans 'externals' looked to the world...once inside the body its almost identical in shape, consistency and colour...caucasian, mongol and negro...

and taking an identity of an single cell, in my case a liver cell(hepatocyte)...when I work independently...I set to wonder how did I know how to form this size and shape and function, and all hepatocytes to look so alike and together form shape, size, function of the 'liver'...which identical in most humans...and how would I know what my job was...and how did each muscle cell of the triceps do the same, and heart cell and brain...which looks different...when we all began from single parent cell ie zygote(egg-sperm)...was there some intelligent force that oversaw it all to correct place, size, form, function...I mean there has to have been some centralized control otherwise too much risk of variable results which I know does not often happen...and same to energy process driving independent intelligent activity...

ah...how many long hours have I mulled over this nursing a beer...alas without an answer...wait a minute...beer damages brain cells...less brain cell means decreasing ability to compute towards answer...damn...all right back to start but no beers...

so with so much mystery and wonder happening within each of us who is reading this...I expect the struggle to understand god...and which involves above and much more to 'energy in intelligent dance of life'...anyone who thinks they are close to the answer is very naive indeed...

Sam
Ps~david to 'being all-knowing is the same as knowing nothing'...answer to god does not know each humans 'future' while they their soul has a body may lie with concept of 'sin' which fundamentally linked in most religious texts on god...otherwise 'god made the person sin' as god already knew what that person was to do...get the drift...