Ms Norma doesn't seem to realise it, but the evidence she quotes undermines the point she is trying to make.

Yes, the internet has seen a huge increase in the availability of porn. And its done an end run around our censorship laws so lesbians, bestiality, violence, scat - its all there. The age controls have disappeared too. Whereas before young Johny had to reply on sneaking a peek at dad's stash, now he could tell dad a thing or two about where to find the best porn.

So, now males of all ages looking at far more porn. And they have been doing so for at least 5 years now. If porn had the effect Ms Norma is worried about, we should of seen a corresponding sharp jump in violence against women. It didn't happen. In fact others here quote figures showing the reverse has happened in the US.

I am sure Ms Norma finds the idea of men looking at and enjoying porn unpleasant. But if it has no concrete effects, what Ms Norma wants amounts to policing mens thoughts because she doesn't like them.

Well I don't particularly like these thoughts of yours Ms Norma. Does that means I can get them policed as well?

Interesting article in The Age today:

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2008/02/28/1203788544143.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap2

An excerpt:

Many of the mainstream porn films watched here are made in America. The US porn industry is worth $12 billion. In California, it employs 12,000 people. Incredibly, most heterosexual porn performers there do not wear condoms. Maguire quotes Luke Ford, a journalist and former porn actor who told US Sixty Minutes: "Most girls who enter this industry do one video and quit. The experience is so painful, horrifying, embarrassing, humiliating for them that they never do it again."

The Porn Report authors deplore extreme "Fear Factor"-style porn films and criticise harmful work practices. But in general their tone is a little too accepting, with a tendency to over-emphasise positive developments. After studying 50 of Australia's top-selling porn films for 2003 (which included such classics as Paul Norman's Nastiest Multiples), the authors conclude "pornography pays more attention to women's pleasure than some people think".

In terms of the power balance in films, they say, "overall, it's about half and half". Women got more time talking to camera, for example, and initiated more sex. But men had orgasms in 80% of sex scenes; women in just 16%. And while women performed oral sex on men for more than 15 hours of screen time, they received it for less than five hours.

People qualified to state whether pornography has led to greater violence or hatred of, or different attitudes towards women, are those in the sex industry. Perhaps research with sex workers should be undertaken to determine whether their clientele is changing its expections. This would be a more telling barometer of the influence of violent porn.

I don't believe that people can be taught from pornography the desire, or need, to inflict pain and humiliation on others. Such people must have a prediliction for this already.
Pictures of attrocities don't inspire others to commit them ... unless ...

Some adults and youngsters enjoy playing extremely violent and inter-active video games. Does this make them homocidal?

Pornography does not necessarily apply to male/females relations - homosexuals also have their own pornography. I have no doubt that the examples provided by Caroline Norma also occur male-on-male in the prison system; and the perpetrators would be
heterosexual. Such examples are appalling in any situation.

A teenage girl told me that her boyfriend smothers his penis with icecream and gets his dog to lick it off. Is this pornography? A criminal-case in Q'land cited a man, whilst wearing waders and standing on a milking stool, for knowing his cow (in the biblical sense). Was there a stampede of men off to buy waders and milking stools?

Personally, I have no interest in porn. The human sex act must be the most ludicrous of all human actions to observe. Obviously some people enjoy porn, or use it to spice up their relationship with their partner. Some are so lonely that they will kiss a face on their TV screen, or use blow-up dolls. I know a woman whose favourite fantasy was being pack-raped; until she was actually raped - thirty years later she still talks with horror about it.

cont ...

Teenage boys are naturally curious about the opposite sex. Many would not like to ask their parents about "erogenous zones, stimulation, etc"- and, if they did, would they get a proper answer - other than being told "the standard": ‘things happen naturally - and sex between two people who love each other, is very beautiful.’ The only information I gave to one of my sons, who was "pedal-to-the-metal", that if he made love that way, he wouldn't keep a lover long.

School-yard information is/was notoriously wrong. Many adults don't even like to contemplate their parents having sex ... How many here would be comfortable talking personally about "orgasms" with their parents; or their adult children. Nowdays boys go to porn sites to find out. Many sites are obviously vile, but I doubt the average boy would take this on board - unless he is already predisposed to it. My sons, now adult, tell me that after a while porn became boring, or it was "off", and they wouldn't revisit this site. I don't know if they look at porn now - it is not my business; importantly, their partners are happy.

I have heard people state that sex-manuals written by sex-therapists were pornography.

I am not advocating porn, nor do I condemn it. I am not knowledgeable about this area, but surely it is an individual matter.

... I must admit, however, that the vision of the man and his cow ... but, only if she was a consenting partner ...

[For those who would immediately condemn me, this does not "turn me on" ...!]

Incidentally, my husband and I both do life-drawing; some people equate this with pornography. It is not.

You may not think yourself knowledgeable, Danielle, but you are certainly wise.

It's the zealous advocates - either for or against - that I find unhelpful to the debate. Those who think porn is entirely damaging to males and exploitative of females, and those who think women's participation in and men's consumption of porn is completely issue-free - both sides have it wrong. It needs a supple, subtle mind to unpack such complex issues.

I like porn while I'm watching it but then often feel yucky when it's over. Apparently that's common. I'm much happier now I've discovered "amateur" stuff - watching (sexy) people in real relationships. The stuff I've seen is clearly not exploitative of the female. Having said that, I rarely go trawling. My husband's interest is more enthusiastic!

Good sense from Danielle and Vanilla. However...

Danielle: "A teenage girl told me that her boyfriend smothers his penis with icecream and gets his dog to lick it off."

I'm sorry, but I find that about the funniest thing I've read in ages :D Surely it's not true? If so...

ICE CREAM MUST BE BANNED!

And we won't even think about what flavour the ice cream is - eh, Vanilla ;)