Leigh

“Most Australians don't know or want to know what is really going on under the guise of protecting their borders.”

"I suppose you have evidence for this sweeping statement, Bronwyn, or is it just an expression of your contempt for all those awful Australians out there who don’t share the views and self-hatred of you and your little elitist clique?"

Yes, Leigh, I do have evidence which I would be happy to share with you if I felt you were interested.

And

"We all have different opinions on this site. But anyone who can describe those who disagree with her as something that “might crawl out and attack you on these pages” – as you did in your first post – is demonstrating the likelihood that she might not be a very nice person; and Ms. Mundell, not herself an abusive person in her writing, might very well be embarrassed to have a supporter like you"

Point taken, Leigh. I have read enough of these posts now though to know that views such as those expressed by Meg do unfortunately attract a lot of personal abuse and racist attack, both of which I consider to be fairly low and both of which were already occurring here, which is what I was referring to.

Don't bother trying to psychoanalyse me, Leigh. I'm more interested in fair and substantiated debate. As I'm sure are most readers.

Australia was being shamed by Tampa, Sage. It was being shamed in the cocktail parties in New York and the nouveau riche clubhouses in Europe, where the sons and daughters of the local burghers sit around sipping latte's and trying to find some way to denigrate their own country and their own people.

Most of these characters were not only born with silver spoons in their mouths, most of them got the whole silver service. Do you remember that Victorian Law student who had went to the most exclusive girls school in Australia? The one who burned the Australian flag in front of TV cameras while screaming "What has this country ever done for me!"

Even Meg Mundell admits that she is middle class. And espousing pro multiculturalism ideals is as big a fashion statement indicating her social position as bragging about sailing across the Tasman in some cashed up son and heir's yacht.

I'll bet that Bronnie did not earn her living cutting sandwiches in a takeaway shop either. Working and disadvantaged class women have a more jaundiced and realistic view of human nature. Bronwyn's sentiments are typical of a cashed up person who appears to have a neurotic need to continuosly display their moral and intellectual superiority over the Great Unwashed.

Sort of class snobbery.

Ok - my point and get it - is that immigration levels are very high under Howard! Much higher than the early and mid 90's when Keating was leader. Howard obviously believes high immigration is necessary. If you think he's wrong Redneck - vote for someone else!

It is hard entering a debate after many comments have been posted. I could respond to many postings, but I’ll keep it simple and just respond to the most recent.

Dear Corin

I heartily agree that immigration rates are far too high. I think Howard is absolutely wrong in this regard. Oh if only the answer was to simply not vote for him next time round.

Immigration should be lowered to net zero. That is, equal to emigration – a total of about 30 000 per annum. This would take it out of the population growth equation. I believe population stabilisation is essential in this country, as in every country, in the interests of sustainability – which is the paramount concern for all of us.

I have always thought that we should increase our refugee intake, to about 24 000 – making it by far the largest category of a 30 000 pa intake. But gee, racial tensions in France, Britain and other countries, and the ominous developments in Australia regarding the new terrorism laws and the reactions from Muslim and other minority groups here, have made me question this and start wondering whether we should be increasing our aid to refugee black spots, thus helping them in their home countries, and not bringing them here at all

Why don't Leigh, Sage and redneck form a club, it could be called Neo-Nazi's Australia, unfortuneatly your implied intimidation, does not work on intellegent human beings, such as Bronwyn, so I would suggest, while you are certainly entitled to your opinion, that you try to add constructive input, instead of irrational nonsense, and present a case properly, for your side, as your comments thus far make me feel embassesed for you all.

I’m Meg. This will be my only contribution to this thread.

Quoting Bronwyn: “I have read enough of these posts now though to know that views such as those expressed by Meg do unfortunately attract a lot of personal abuse and racist attack.’

Yes, it's been interesting to cop this. No personal hassle, but the nasty responses to an honest and non-hostile article expose the latent anger, suspicion and hypocrisy I was highlighting, and which we all need to question.

Those who got defensive, take a gentle breath and re-read the article – note the positive comments about Australia and its people. Don't misrepresent my story as a simplistically ugly scenario.

What are “Australian values”? Did the angry respondents demonstrate them? If not, should they too be given the boot? No, I think not.

Quoting Redneck: “Even Meg Mundell admits that she is middle class. And espousing pro multiculturalism ideals is as big a fashion statement indicating her social position as bragging about sailing across the Tasman in some cashed up son and heir's yacht…"

For the record, that ‘cashed-up son and heir’ was a broke wreck. I left home at 15, have cut hundreds of sandwiches and worked many menial and low-paid jobs to support myself. You haven’t revealed your real name, so enough frankness from me! But I’ve lived a far from safe or sheltered life – and an interesting one. Yet you see my image, read the words ‘middle class’, and whip out your cookie cutter. But people the world over don’t fit the rigid labels you so readily slap on them.

Who has compassion? If you vote yes, you represent hope for the future (whatever your political label). Those who don’t must admit they’re doing more than rocking the boat; they’re strangling life itself.

Let’s give the first option a shot. Whether you agree with me or not, how about we surprise ourselves with more constructive and thoughtful comments?