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The Forum > Article Comments > Creator of Heaven and Earth > Comments

Creator of Heaven and Earth : Comments

By Peter Sellick, published 4/2/2008

The assertion that God is the agency behind the material world leads us into a morass of theological and scientific problems.

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La di dah - yet another 'religion' article. Just what is it that is so fearful about death? Me, I am an atheist who is assured of eternal existence (as are we all)- matter cannot be destroyed, and within 60 years of my death my atoms will be incorporated into those of many other living things, just as I am composed of matter from other living beings over the ages, perhaps even Jesus, if he really existed. Now there's a puzzle - how can I contain Jesus-atoms and yet not believe in god, not even a teeny, teeny weeny bit?
Posted by Candide, Monday, 4 February 2008 10:23:54 PM
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The Big Bang theory depends on the assumption that the speed of light in vacuo is a constant, and has been so for at least the last 13 billion years that we see through to the edge of our observed universe. What if that assumption is wrong?.THAT would a paradigm shift that would shift our cosmologists to the red.
Posted by HenryVIII, Monday, 4 February 2008 11:58:17 PM
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CSTEELE :) You last line was soooo gratifying :) in short YES :)

Your response raises many questions. But your conclusion 'Am I being too judgemental... on me' should be regarded as a bit of a mirror.

Nevertheless.. I totally support your freedom to criticize me.

Let me ask you.. 'r u open to discussion' ? a 'bigot' would not be.

Sells denial of the Creator of Genesis, is also a denial of the foundation of Jesus proclamation. Your observations about the Jesus of the Gospels.. is encouraging. I hope you will take more time to delve into the depths of what Paul was saying.

Jesus said:
"Father, ........because you loved me before the creation of the world" John 17:24

Question. "before the what?" ... "that" is what is judging Sells mate.

If I were to pick a new testament book which most 'fits' you..it would be "James".. have a read and see if I'm wrong.

James focuses on the issue of 'works' and 'faith'... it's one of the most heartwarming books of the Bible. Even so, it does not reject the 'faith' on which the works it so warmly speaks of.. are based.

My 'judging' of Sells.. is really an opinion. I'm not campaigning for his excommunication. The New testament, including the Lord Himself.. includes 'judging' of others. Example "Woe to you scribes, pharisees..HYPOCRITES" said Jesus. The distinction needs to be made, between evaluating others beliefs based on OUR 'righteousness'..or.. on an objective standard.. like 'law'....or principle.
I'm assessing Sells position not by 'my own' condition, but by an objective standard. If we couldn't do that, then none of us would say much about anything. True?

Did Jesus himself not warn about 'false prophets, false teachers'?

From OUTside 'The Church' you are welcome to say what you like about us, with reasonable immunity. (But don't start saying we kill babies or drink blood or I'll hunt ya down :) I speak as one 'INside...to one claiming to be 'in'side.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Tuesday, 5 February 2008 5:17:31 AM
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Unfortunately for Peter the only evidence for a loving history-creating God comes from exactly the same unreliable sources as the 'evidence' for a cosmological universe-creating God. There is no logical reason to dismiss one without dismissing the other.

Evidence, please, believers, evidence - your personal assertions are of no interest or value to anyone.
Posted by Jon J, Tuesday, 5 February 2008 6:21:15 AM
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Like many others here Boazy I find you incorrigible in your certainty - but alas, you'll probably see that as a compliment. Your beliefs presume the sciential. You present us merely with a more naïve and less sophisticated version of a 'systematic certainty' you reject - i.e. Christian orthodoxy.

If humans are capable of certainty at all, it is surely of the sort that is capable of mixing with doubts. Your judgement of Sells, by an 'objective' standard, puts him 'INside' as much as you - your claim to be truly Christian does not make you exclusive, just nauseatingly pious.
Posted by relda, Tuesday, 5 February 2008 7:53:51 AM
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I found this article of little value unless the point of it was to call 'creationists' back to a less 'Taliban' view of Biblical interpretation and stop embarassing the wider Christian community with childlike (US Evangelical) interpretations of the 'rapture.'

If the author was dismissing the veracity of the (unscientific, but prosaic) way the bible depicts creation, searching for a less literal interpretation, fine, but, I am not sure we can remove God from the equation because we don't really understand the mystery that God is and the complexities of the universe.

The fundamental question - is there a Creator? - is initially more important than who is the Creator and how did they do it? If I am to believe only in the here and now, then my perspective on a number of issues, eg justice, mercy, suffering etc could well be different.

This doesn't mean we react according to fear, but, perhaps awe is an undervalued concept. If someone, like Jesus is able to direct us to more fully appreciate God, then this is, as they say 'truly awesome!'
Posted by Reality Check, Tuesday, 5 February 2008 10:31:35 AM
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