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The Forum > Article Comments > Logic and the education of girls > Comments

Logic and the education of girls : Comments

By Leslie Cannold, published 3/11/2005

Leslie Cannold argues young women should be educated about their work and family lifestyle choices.

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I don't believe this is an issue of merit - everybody knows that women are just as capable as men ...we already know the art of logic, have the ability to reason correctly (AND we're better at multi-tasking). But most women don't want a high-powered career, which could be one of the reasons why there are less women high up on the corporate ladder.

Woman are lucky in that they have the option of being stay-at-home mother/partner or having a career or both. They're not usually expected to be the prime provider and therefore less have motivation/reason to pursue careers, especially if they have a partner with a successful career.

Most women want a man with a well-paid career. I have many female friends whose mothers have told them to "find a rich man to look after you". A rich man, unless he's inherited his money, is usually rich because of a successful career.

This hasn't got anything to do with education / politics / derogatory ideas about women - it's more to do with the fact that a man that can be a good provider is more desirable to women, and I don't believe this will ever change
Posted by lisamaree, Friday, 4 November 2005 1:12:38 PM
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There can hardly be any argument that there is considerable biological difference between women and men. And that because of it, the upbringing and development of the two different sexes in the community must give rise to some differences regarding social vision.
So why the hell is society deprived of (almost, to date) fifty percent of those developed perspectives when it comes to how society is to be judged?
If that requires society to be proactive in the recruitment of women to the High Court, then that needs to be done so that society can benefit from an adequate representation of social perspective.
Posted by colinsett, Friday, 4 November 2005 1:39:52 PM
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Oh Dear “The truth is that the merit claim is an insult to every woman’s intelligence.”

The alternative to the merit process are either affirmative action (“prejudice” by another word) or patronization.

Maybe the Merit claim, far from being an insult to every womans’ intelligence is simply above and beyond Ms Cannold’s own intelligence or prejudice.

The assessment of “merit” is not a matter measured across a few visible and simplistic standards but a complex balancing of different and sometimes contradicting attributes. Ones commitment to the role may be challenged between a woman who has been devoted to the service of that role and a man who, with equal dedication, did not take time out to produce children.

You cannot measure “conditional merit”, (where “conditional” is based upon a perfectly level playing field). “Merit” is measured in the circumstances which prevail. What Ms Cannold is demanding is Affirmative action.

Affirmative action is what some blacks have demanded in USA but it is also what whites practiced in South Africa under apartheid (the more the “white” the more the “affirmative”). That Cannold should expect it is a disgrace.

The final paragraph says a lot

Agree - Educators should not promote any point of view

But as for “unspoken assumptions behind, and implications of, the arguments powerful others make about them” – unspoken assumptions ? you can criticize what is said but not what is not said – and “unspoken” is “not said” – this sounds like political double-talk.

As for the bit about “do-nothing men”, plenty of men work hard to support and bring stability to their family environment. Plenty of men sacrifice health for their work roles and plenty of men know the truth – a couple committed to one another are a stronger unit than a couple of egos fighting over who is top-dog or whose career matters. But maybe that is part of Ms Cannolds own “issues” she needs to deal with and which prompted her to write this sort of garbage.
Posted by Col Rouge, Friday, 4 November 2005 2:12:38 PM
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Have to agree that the perjorative 'do-nothing men' is unfair - Leslie would do better to be less insulting and more encouraging of men. There are many proactive men who love and support women. Men who agree that keeping 50% of potential tied to the kitchen is regressive and waste of human ability.

Leslie has a point though positive discrimination will need to occur while there is a vast predominance of men in positions of power. Like tends to employ like - regardless of any merit, women will not achieve equal representation without conscious effort by all in positions of power. And that includes other women - the Thatcherite types who prefer to keep their power from their sisters by maintaining the status quo.

There is a lot older women can do to encourage, advise and assist younger women, but we can't do it all alone. We need men to help too - from performing their share of parenting, housekeeping as well as treating women as equals in the workplace.

Walk beside me - we are strong, walk ahead of me - you walk alone.

(formerly Trinity)
Posted by Scout, Saturday, 5 November 2005 11:35:54 AM
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Scout, 'tied to the kitchen' ?
no, not at all, I've emphasized the 'nurture' aspect, not some domestic prison. See my points above, there is ample opportunity for all that wonderful 'human' potential to be expressed in very fulfilling economic and socially rewarding ways.

Sand..
I don't think you read past my first line in that post...
have another read.....

I've maintained that the nurture period should not be disrupted by 'career/work' unless of course she is 'supergirl' who can juggle both with NO detriment to the children. But for some reason, I just can't see how a 'career' in a competitive dog eat dog world would give much time for nurturing children.

When the children are of age to cope more independantly.. the world is your oyster ! Go for it..enjoy it.. seek challenges.. seek opportunities.. even wallow in it :)
Posted by BOAZ_David, Saturday, 5 November 2005 12:50:52 PM
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Scout,
“Leslie would do better to be less insulting and more encouraging of men.”

Leslie does not have to even “encourage” men. If she treats men with dignity, then they will treat her with dignity.

It reminds me of a situation in a company that employed a female personal relations officer who began “demanding” respect from men, but she also went around continuously criticizing and maligning the men in that company.

She left within 12mnths. In fact she had to, as no male would eventually work with her. Meanwhile there were other women employed in the same company that had been there for up to 20yrs. They didn’t demean or criticize men all day, so men naturally gave them respect, and would readily work with them at any task.

The continuous outpouring of negative, demeaning remarks and criticism of the male gender by academic feminists is not working in their favour. There is almost nothing that can be relied upon from an academic feminist, and much of what is in this article only presents half the story. If these academic feminists are acting as representatives for women, then I don’t think women are being very well served.
Posted by Timkins, Saturday, 5 November 2005 1:28:37 PM
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