Irfan as usual is constantly reminding us how worthy good ol' Aussie dinki di Mozzies are,but likes turning a blind eye to the obvious.

Today it was, for example reported that overseas terrorist recruiters were active locally and we had better smarten up our relations with the Moslem community-otherwise a London style attack was inevitable(The Australian).
I find this difficult to regard as other than a thinly disguised threat and staggeringly arrogant.
Australia isnt going to fit into the Muslim way of doing things-its up to them to fit into the Oz way,if they expect any favourable regard from the majority of the community.
As Irfan knows only too well the secular Turks are a whole universe different from the types who are so reviled by the whole world and Crazy John was a secular Turk.
Give up,Irfan,you cant win this debate unless you face the sad reality!

Rob, Mik, Themistocles - you're all missing the point and ignoring the content of the article.

RobbyH: "Until I just read Irfan's bias I had never heard of John being referred to as Muslim. It wasn't a part of his advertising I would suggest.
That's because it was just a part of his life, as religion should be."

Well duh. That's the point Irfan was making when he said:

"These people represent the real face of Australian Islam. They have few, if any, links to overseas governments, and have a greater stake in Australia's security. And these people need to come out of the halal closet and not allow fear of vilification from cultural warriors or fringe thick-Sheiks stop them from laying claim to their faith or heritage."

The fact of the matter is, Mr Ilham was a muslim, and a decent bloke - that's what's being lost on all those who cry all muslims are evil.
Here's one that wasn't - so it's possible we can get along, if we just drop all the hostile rhetoric. Hostile rhetoric, which you three are doing an admirable job of perpetuating.

mik: Crazy john may have been a secular turk. He was still a muslim - that's the point. The problem is, not everybody seems to know that they are worlds away from fundamentalist muslims, as evidenced by the earlier posts.

Look - we can all agree that fundamentalists are to be stopped - Irfan's written as much in other articles. But there are many out there who aren't capable of making the distinction between fundamentalists and reasonable people such as Ilham.

What's frustrating is that you don't have to hate all forms of Islam in order to oppose fundamentalism, but some would have you believe we must. Well Mr Ilham's a fine example of why that isn't so.

Irfan Yusuf: "These people represent the real face of Australian Islam. They have few, if any, links to overseas governments, and have a greater stake in Australia's security. And these people need to come out of the halal closet and not allow fear of vilification from cultural warriors or fringe thick-Sheiks stop them from laying claim to their faith or heritage.

Ilhan defined his values in a profile published in the August 2005 edition of the Australian Financial Review magazine. That profile mentioned how Ilhan carries his Islamic faith with him, every day applying what he sees as basic tenets of honesty and integrity to his business. "

Seems like the whack-a-Mozzie brigade have read Irfan's article with their usual hate-tinted glasses on. Irfan urges prominent moderate Muslims to "come out of their halal closets" as a counter to "fringe thick-Sheiks", and out come the haters:

Themistocles: "This is just another guileful attempt of Irfan to deceive the Australian public about the real beliefs of Muslims toward Western civilization."

RobbyH: "Drivel Irfan, drivel."

mik: "Irfan as usual is constantly reminding us how worthy good ol' Aussie dinki di Mozzies are,but likes turning a blind eye to the obvious".

It really is little wonder that ordinary Muslims tend to keep to themselves or avoid making their religion public, when conciliatory and reasonable articles like this are greeted with such hostility. Not to mention how such attitudes might actually encourage alienation among Muslims.

Moderate Muslims like Irfan and John Ilhan aren't any kind of problem for Australian society, but the hate and intolerance expressed by those above are, as is the inevitable antisocial response by those who are the objects of it.

To talk of fundamentalist Muslims is hardly accurate. One may speak of fundamentalist Christians who take the Bible literally.
Sure sections of Muslim society have chosen asymmetric warfare as a means of correcting what they see as the West’s unfairness perhaps though an analysis by Robert Pape found that the main motive is national or putting it another way removal of foreigners from their country.
Since politicians have the habit of using all tools at hand regardless of consequences, so called Islamic-Fascism has been played up even if at present a minority causing less damage than driving a car or smoking. Sure the Hollywood and treated as such 9?11 was excellent copy and enabled Bush to push for, well whatever he is pausing for the new American century, world dominance, protection of the oil chokepoint of the Persian Gulf or now maybe the Caspian as well.
In large measure we encouraged this element using abusing and discarding them in our fight with Russia in Afghanistan ten to find ourselves the target of their anger. The IRA was eventually defeated noit by force but by dialogue and an attempt at understanding. Not normally a course of action politicians desire preferring the daring do hate you mate approach.
If you doubt then read. May I suggest a starting point might be Ghost wars by Steve Coll, Devil’s Game by Robert Dreyfuss and No God but God by Reza Aslan and continue reading the field is huge always bearing in mind the Phoenix Programme -an example of our terrorism

CJ Morgan-get real-no one was hating or intolerant of Crazy John,which surely is the whole point if you think about it.
He would not have achieved his success,if this were the case.
Starting from the obvious,Australian customers wouldnt have bought from him.
You seem to be saying that all the ugliness which is shown locally,hate preachers etc,crimes against local girls who are fair prey and it goes on and on-these are the fault of the Australian community for not being nice to the Muslems-what a lot of drivel!
We are even supposed to accept that we are at threat unless we accept the conditions set by them.
The truth of course is that the moderates are relatively powerless ,even assuming they are of good will,whilst the true power lies with the fundementalists who stir up the trouble and the easily led young men who use their sermons as an excuse for bad behaviour.
I didnt know Crazy John personally,but would assume that if he was used as a role model,there would be far less problems.
Once again, a secular Turk is different in everyway to those the Australian community do not trust- with good reason.

And did any one notice that at the funeral of this "just-like-us-Muslim" the women, including John's spouse, had to stand away from the coffin? Only men were allowed close to the coffin during the prayers.