The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > The Word is Howard will be the victor > Comments

The Word is Howard will be the victor : Comments

By Alan Matheson, published 12/10/2007

Forget the pundits and the pollsters, according to Danny Nalliah of Catch the Fire Ministries, John Howard has it in the bag.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. ...
  6. 6
  7. 7
  8. 8
  9. All
Yes! The electoral fate of a politician in a sparsely populated land with almost nil impact on world events is a significant factor in the second coming of the lord Jesus Christ.

And man, oh man, is he going to be impressed by our offshore detention program.
Posted by Sancho, Friday, 12 October 2007 9:30:58 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Do any of these people live in the real world? As if God was going to help John Howard: a notorious liar. Why is it that religious people think that only sexual sins disqualify leaders but lying, stealing or killing are overlooked by God.
Posted by Peppy, Friday, 12 October 2007 9:46:07 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
As a christian I couldnt fault John Howard but in one area...defence. Theres no citizens home guard army and no guns for one either.
Yet the darkening world climate says more has to be done...and very soon.
If we are acknowledging the Second Coming we need to acknowledge the Book of Revelation and what it says about China and the KINGS OF THE EAST (Revelation (9:16 and 16:12).
Posted by Gibo, Friday, 12 October 2007 11:02:27 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I never thought that I would see the day that I would have any basis for agreement with a churchman - however this article seems to be that day, if only because 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' as the saying goes. It is bad enough that the irrational, mind boggling garbage espoused by the religious right now finds full and government supported expression in our education system, but now, it seems, finds ready ears at the very top of the government power system - a power structure that is utterly devoid of principle, and will do or say anything to maintain that power. Even so, there is hope. Howard looks like going down for the count, whilst the 'sanctimonious smirker' was never up in the first place.
Posted by GYM-FISH, Friday, 12 October 2007 11:39:49 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Have you ever considered standing for election, Gibo? I think you'd be right up there with Danny Nalliah as a Fundies First candidate.
Posted by CJ Morgan, Friday, 12 October 2007 12:02:44 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
a WORD for Danny.. from the Lord :)

from James 1:19

19My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak

Amen...
Posted by BOAZ_David, Friday, 12 October 2007 12:06:05 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Amen to that BOAZ_David.

Or in the immortal words of Mark Twain:

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
Posted by Johnj, Friday, 12 October 2007 12:15:33 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Well, based on the assurance of Danny Nuttier I'm going to Centrebet next to put twenty bucks on a sure thing!
Posted by Reynard, Friday, 12 October 2007 3:23:02 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
It's true the media have been reluctant to deal with these people, but it's also true that 4 Corners next Monday night will be about Exclusive Brethren's political involvement. At least it's a start.

There is a worrying trend for these groups to involve themselves in politics, but it's just not going to change our whole society the way it has in America. We are just not American.

We've got our little clusters of evagelists colonising particular suburbs, but they're no different in that respect to other ethnic groups with different values prefering to be with familiar and like-minded people. I think the Australian culture is plenty strong enough to survive them.

Realistically, any Australian politician who publicly sided with them would be toast. We just don't do that foaming at the mouth, rolling eyeballs stuff. A sizable portion writes 'Jedi' on the census form under religion and every survey conducted shows we're way more progressive than the United States.

The Queensland parliament just passed stem cell research. I'm not sure but I think that's the third state to do so. So far God hasn't appeared in the chamber to personally throttle Anna Bligh.
Posted by chainsmoker, Friday, 12 October 2007 3:26:25 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Loony..... TRULY loony.

Now I know that the world is coming to an end.... the patients have control of the asylum !!
Posted by Iluvatar, Friday, 12 October 2007 4:51:35 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
THE WAY I SEE IT THE STATES ARE RUN BY THE AUSTRALIAN GOVERMENT , SO MAYBE THIS IS WHY THE HOSPITALS AND OUR HEALTH ARE AT DANGER ,LIKE THAT OF THE FORGOTTEN AUSTRALIANS THE GOVERMENT ARE SWEEPING THIS ISSUE UNDER THEIR CARPET , LOOK AT THE SITUTATION IT IS BOTH SIDES OF THE POLITICIANS WHO HAVE TO ACT AND OWN UP TO THE MISTAKES AND ERRORS THAT ARE OCCURRING TODAY AND THAT OF YESTERDAY YEAR BOTH LIBERAL AND LABOUR ARE RESPONABLE FOR EVERYTHING IN OUR GOVERMENT AS THEY ARE THE ONES WHO ARE SURPOSE TO BE KEEPING US SAFE AND WELL , LEAST THE PAITENTS ARE NOT ENDURING THE WORST LIKE THE FORGOTTEN AUSTRALIANS ,BUT THE PAITIENTS ARE BEING ABUSED BY PUTTING THEM ON A TROLLEY IN A ROOM OR HALLWAY
Posted by huffnpuff, Friday, 12 October 2007 7:56:40 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
A prophet (in the biblical sense) is shown to be a true prophet when what they say happens. In this case it would seem to me that the best thing to do would be to wait!
Posted by Merry, Friday, 12 October 2007 8:55:23 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
This is a bad case of somebody taking the Dungeons and Dragons game of Christianity too far , so far that the self intraspection that belief is , into ones own mind clearly sends him out of his mind.

God cant help Howard for reasons other than the fact he is only occult superstition myth ( God that is - not Howard). If god existed Going by Christian claims of what god is and does based on their expert knowledge of god, god isnt smart enough to be of use to Howard. Also by Christian descriptions and the Bible god never thinks anything through and his proven incompetence would hinder Howard. According to the Bible God is unaware Australia exists , How will god even find Howard?But God is a darkage Harry Potter and so god is irrelevant.

This is all humour of course, god does not exist and the Childish politics of occult believers are in no way an election issue. as far as this election is concerned , God is dead - real issues prevail.

Howard wont win simply because of the critical mass of the lives he has destroyed through AWAs. Howard's anti-Australianism has put him in opposition against patriots. Howard has also ignored pollution created climate change for a decade and so his government is to blame for the destruction of the agricultural sector and Australias largest river system not to mention an untold number of Australian deaths in the future. Howard has not strengthened the economy so when the Chinese boom slows we are an economic sitting duck to the winds of recession and depression.

Like the toothless and the deaf Jesus and God cannot help Howard.
Posted by West, Saturday, 13 October 2007 12:39:12 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I'm now truely confused...I thought John Howard was God.
Posted by keith, Saturday, 13 October 2007 1:10:19 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
And the Lord spoke to Jesus and the Word was passed on for all to know. The word was ..... profit.

Subsequent fools have spelt it incorrectly and even invented other meanings for it but the one true God knows what it means doesn't he John? Profit.

Nostradamus dropped by earlier as well and told me there would be a late challenge for the PM's job. Harold Holt had walked back out of the surf, divided by Moses Abbott, and declared that he had "had a dream". He had dreamt that a small white man would lead the Australian aboriginals out of the wilderness and therefore he had come back.

Harold read yesterday's paper and realised Howard has stolen that dream too ( as well as the Baby Boomers Generation's stolen dreams) so he turned on his heel, crushed a rodent or two and swam back into history. A history in which he was not mentioned by the way.

The people heard and the people knew. The Word was.... well... male cattle droppings, and lots of it.
Posted by pegasus, Saturday, 13 October 2007 2:19:59 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Now, Pegasus, if I didn't know any better I'd say you weren't taking this seriously.
Posted by Sancho, Saturday, 13 October 2007 2:57:13 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The late Prime Minister Robert Menzies noted that "Politicians who cater for the shallow and prejudiced judgements of the moment" with "their eyes turned always to the next election leading to a parliament of the spineless, (where) democracy would disappear".
He warned that "our political judgement, being based on no continuing principle, will be spasmodic, uncertain and inconsistent".

And of those who ignore principle in favour of popularity and the political fix, "a more stupid and humiliating conception of the function of a member of parliament can hardly be imaged". The best epitaph for a true democrat will not be 'I tickled their ears, I got their votes, I spent their money'.
Posted by lorry, Saturday, 13 October 2007 4:58:30 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
'A prophet (in the biblical sense) is shown to be a true prophet when what they say happens. In this case it would seem to me that the best thing to do would be to wait!'

Merry, if this prophecy occurs, then I'm switching Gods.
Posted by Liz, Saturday, 13 October 2007 9:32:45 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
A "democracy" which is so heavily influenced by pressure groups that claims to represent all religious Australians is clearly a very sick one. The amount of influence these religious groups are given in our society and democratic far outweighs the amount of the population they represent.
Posted by RD, Saturday, 13 October 2007 10:34:51 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
HOWARD should go home and start enjoying his POST P.M. PERKS after the 24th NOVEMBER. I'LL BE SAYING THANK GOD TO MY DEITY! But after.. we will all have to give this new bloke a fair-go for 3 years.But this Nalliah bloke will still be here spouting his nonsence, so what'll we do about HIM! I GO into the bush to sing songs from the "Sound of MUSIC" AND I am uplifted! I LISTEN TO, the songs of our magpies, our butcher birds and our Australian Galahs. I can't stand to watch these American type "GALAHS" who sing a lot of ALLEUIAS! AND HAVE "BORN AGAIN" POOR STOOGES falling backwards and being saved by two burly CATCHERS" but, the only "weapon" we must use is " RIDICULE" AND LAUGHTER. COME ON AUSSIES! YOU THROW PLENTY AT FOOTBALL GAMES, SAVE SOME FOR NALLIAH!Go to their MEETINGS and have a good LAUGH!
Posted by TINMAN, Sunday, 14 October 2007 6:10:19 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Just Ask anybody over the age of 40 and about the labor landslide intrests rates up in the 19% ask youirself what do I really need ...Better the Shark you Know
Posted by OFFDAZE, Sunday, 14 October 2007 6:21:56 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The garbage about interest rates and how Johhnie (I can't lie straight in bed) misrepresents the facts is astounding.

When Johnnie Howard was treasurer he reigned over one of the highest interest rate regime in the world.. When Labor took over it inherited the high interest rates from little Johnnie. Treasurer Johnnie presided over bank bill rates of 21.39% in April 1982. Yep and that is the record!

The Reserve Bank during Hawke/Keating years (fearing inflation almost to panic stations) raised interest rates way too quickly over too short a period thrusting us into a deep recession. However there was a world recession at the same time. The highest bank bill rate in these times was 19.56% in December 1985. OOps a few facts to prove the lies!

By world standards our interest rates are still very high and have been through Howard's reign as PM. Sure we haven't had the the high rates of the Howard treasurer/Keating treasurer eras but they are still high.

Here is an interesting argument from back in 2004... http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/10/08/1097089569339.html

The unprecedented growth that Howard has seen is not of our politicians making... It is a world event caused by Asia's expansion... Go China Go!

So if you chose to believe the lies about interest rates... and the effect our pollies claim they have on them then please continue to be fooled! You don't have to be smart to vote... but occasionally it would be nice if a few of you actually put your political biases to one side and actually looked at the facts.

Howard will be voted out this election ... because people who aren't one eyed Labor or Liberal and who actually think will realise that he has been a poor leader and has told way too many untruths. WMD's, Iraq, AWB, Low Interest Rates, Pollies super, Core and non-core promises etc etc.

There's the door Johnnie... don't slam it on the way out!
Posted by Opinionated2, Sunday, 14 October 2007 10:35:06 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hey Opinionated2 !

<quote>

Howard will be voted out this election ...

<endquote>

Is that a core or non-core promise?
Posted by Iluvatar, Monday, 15 October 2007 1:56:03 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Reckon the Nazarene Jesus wouldn't have had a bar of any of 'em.

Please take a gander at the Sermon on the Mount, even though some say the boy Jesus picked it up from Greek tutors at the Great Library of Alexandria when he was in Egypt with his mother.

Also remember the older Jesus' favourite friends were ordinary fisherman, with whom he probably learnt to booze a bit.

With his youthful wisdom and understanding, might be even called a Left Wing Loonie or a bleeding heart today, you never can tell?

Regards BB
Posted by bushbred, Monday, 15 October 2007 4:51:37 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
NOW THE EXCLUSIVE BRETHREN LINE UP FOR HOWARD, I HOPE HE JOINS GEORGE BUSH AFTER 24TH NOV. THEY CAN BOTH MEET THEIR BRETHREN SUPPORTERS AND PRAY THAT THE MESS IN IRAQ DOESN'T BRING THE U.S. EMPIRE TO IT'S KNEES WITH THEM!
Posted by TINMAN, Monday, 15 October 2007 7:29:09 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
So many people these days claim to follow Jesus Christ - and yet their actions would suggest they don't have a clue about what Jesus taught and more importantly they don't have any idea about the example He lived.

Can you imagine Howard giving his life for peace without retaliation?

The prince of peace believed love and friendship were the way to peace - not bombs, sharing EVERYTHING He had with others.

Howard and many other modern, lapel-pin-wearing-only "christians" claim to follow Him just to get voted in so they can pursue their self-serving agenda. Unfortunately people genuinely trying to be good "Christians" are fooled. Let's hope they won't be again. Too many other people's lives might depend upon it.

More than a million live shave now been lost in Iraq, 4,000,000 people have been displaced and, according to Oxfam, 8,000,000 more are suffering form malnutrition - most of whom are children.

Howard, Bush and Blair are much more like the Herod of the Gospels than they are the Christ of the Gospels.
Posted by K£vin, Monday, 15 October 2007 7:43:28 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Kevin... you are a breath of fresh air... well said!

The Christian ideals of "turn the other cheek" "love thine enemy" "do unto others" etc. seem to be lost on many Christians.

I am appalled how some Christians seem to put John Howard number 1 and Jesus' teachings number 2... Are they really Christians?

Christianity to me embodies love, forgiveness, peace, caring, empathy, compassion, righteousness and honesty and we should demand it from our leaders who claim to be Christian.

A politician who calls himself Christian is using a reference I can't check... and so I have to watch his deeds to know his true heart.

Howard has been too dishonest too often for Aussies to give him another turn...

He is the "wolf in sheeps clothing" and always has been!
Posted by Opinionated2, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 1:21:18 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Johnj,

Although I agree with your sentiments- DN is definitely a fool- you have attributed to Mark Twain ("It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt,") a passage which originally comes from the bible. I can't remember the book, chapter, or verse, as I have done all I can to forget about the first 20 years of my life, but I must say, one of the things that has swayed me back to the right wing of politics in the 10 years since I escaped from my fundamentalist upbringing is the astounding ignorance left-wing wuss-bags have of Christianity and the bible.
Posted by dozer, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 11:26:39 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Kevin and Opinionated, never change, mates, go for it. Further, it is so welcome that others of our OlO's are thinking in a similar manner.

Let us have more of 'em....

Regards, BB, WA
Posted by bushbred, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 3:58:44 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Dozer, I assume you mean Proverbs 17:28

"Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent, and discerning if he holds his tongue."

Mark Twain had a better understanding of the Bible than most, and it was more than enough to convince him that Christianity had very little going for it.

But I have to say preferring right-wing politics because some lefties are ignorant of the Bible is about as sensible as preferring left-wing politics because some right-wingers are ignorant of Origin of the Species, or Das Kapital.
Posted by wizofaus, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 4:17:22 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Both Origin of Species and Das Capital are discredited.

Both in theory and in practice.
In relation to The Orign of Species if anyone thinks their relatives look like apes that is thier problem; not mine. LOL
Posted by Webby, Wednesday, 17 October 2007 8:49:13 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hey, Chainsmoker, so you reckon that the Exclusive Brethren could have no effect on us Aussies?

Well, now, but looks like our Johnny Howard is showing effects, because it looked ten days ago that Ruddy Boy had him beat.

But going by that 4-Corners film looks like JH has been getting a spiritual lift.

In fact that film showed me something I didn't know. That the Exclusive Brethren mob that our Johnny treats as normal Libs, is so close to that Fundi' End Days Americana crowd
who put George Dubya in power, they have lifted up our Johnny Boy, as well?

Similar to the Hillsong Church crowd, wouldn't have a bar of any of 'em myself, though could still call myself a bit of a Christian.

Cheers - BB, WA.
Posted by bushbred, Friday, 19 October 2007 1:03:37 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Wizofaus,

Thanks for the proper verse. Twain made that quote at a time when most people would have known he was quoting the bible, and would not have made the mistake of attributing the quote to Mark Twain. But what part of "one of the" don't you understand? There's much more to despise about the Left, regardless of my pet-hates.
Posted by dozer, Saturday, 20 October 2007 2:42:59 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Dozer,

"There's much more to despise about the Left, regardless of my pet-hates."

Go on Dozer, tell us about them and make a fool of yourself.

I'd rather spend time with a humanist "leftie" than a bible-bashing "rightie". At least the leftie has a real grasp on mortality and not some superstitious dreams about how the world will end and some spook will come to save them !! |-)
Posted by Iluvatar, Sunday, 21 October 2007 8:39:53 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Where to begin… religion...

After escaping from fundamentalist hell, it sooned became apparent that my conversations with the tolerant left appeared almost as frustrating and futile as my "conversations" with my fundamentalist family. The biggest problem with fundamentalist religion is that it controls its followers through the crippling fear that they might go to hell; It's not just gays and Buddhists who are going to hell, everyone is. One slip up- you let your mind dwell on the short skirt in front of you- a false step crossing the road- and you end up in hell for all eternity. But many people on the left don't see this. They harp on about how fundamentalism isn't tolerant of other religions, supports GWB, hates homosexuals and opposes abortion, as though if it could only be modernized, there would be nothing wrong with it.

In short, you don't oppose Fundamentalist Christianity because what it believes is nonsense. You oppose it because it's politically incorrect. I thought once I escaped from the fundies that I could live a life governed by science, logic and reason, yet my tolerant, open-minded leftist friends believe in all sorts of crazy ideas like karma, reiki and chakras, and are blown away by inane books by James Redfield and Dan Brown.

Many on the left are blind to the danger posed by Islam. We are continually reminded that Islam is a religion of peace, and and are admonished for demonising it. Indeed it is a religion of peace, a religion which defines "peace" as "submission." Islam teaches that there will be peace when the whole world has either converted to, or submitted itself to, Islam, ie, Pax Islamica.

But although fair and rational criticism of Christianity is allowed and encouraged, as evidenced by this thread, similar, warranted, criticism of Islam is not allowed, and dismissed as culturally insensitive.

Thus, after September 11, rather than having the moral, intellectual and physical courage to face the real danger, many on the left have heaped the blame upon their own, upon the West. The day after the 9/11 attacks, the caring socialists
Posted by dozer, Monday, 22 October 2007 3:24:41 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
at Uni plastered flyers all over campus, showing the burning towers next to the rhetorical “What does this mean for the anti-capitalist movement?” Next day, flyers proclaimed “This is the result of US imperialism!” It’s America’s support for Israel, the overthrow of governments in the Middle East and South America, it’s corporations, black slavery, the genocide of indigenous populations. Above all, we deserved it because of all the starving people in the world, who we made starve.

The most stupid comment I ever heard was made the week of the London bombings in 2005, by someone who could not understand why Tony Blair was so angry: Never mind that they occured the day after the G8 announced that it would cancel the debt of the world’s 15 poorest countries. Let’s make this very clear: Islamist Terrorists don’t give a pig’s ass about the plight of AIDS affected starving orphans in Zaire.

To top it all off, no sooner did I escape from an evil religion that taught “some superstitious dreams about how the world will end and some spook will come to save them,” than supposedly rational, secular people start attaching themselves to similar doomsday prophecies about the end of the world. I do not consider myself a climate change skeptic, but I find it disturbing that each new prediction of the world’s firy end is treated with unquestioning zeal by the Left. It fits in perfectly to the narrative the Left has created for us, whereby we are all guilty for the privileged life we enjoy in the West. Now our very existence, and everything we do, is destroying the planet. We are made to feel guilty merely for being. The left’s own self-hatred is transferred to the whole of Western society.

At least I can see what’s going on. I’ve escaped the guilt trap of both fundamentalist Christians and weak, insipid Leftists. There are plenty of good, right-wing humanists in the world. The ultimate lie you tell is that morality and caring is the exclusive domain of the Left. You will never achieve anything worthwhile.

I hate you.
Posted by dozer, Monday, 22 October 2007 3:26:24 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Dozer,

I thank you for a thoughtful and though-provoking post.

Not what I expected.

First, I should state that I am not committed to a "left" or "right" - wing view. Therefore I don't associate religion with either end of the political spectrum. Like you, I find such labels very unnerving and, frankly, quite dangerous.

Also, like you I have had my "run-ins" with the "crazies" on the left. I treat those who hold such belief systems just as bigoted at the populist world religions. (In my view a Wiccan, Pagan, Druid, Jew, Muslim or Christian are all supporters of some personal "religion" that are all, simply different superstitious belief systems.)

<quote>
At least I can see what’s going on. I’ve escaped the guilt trap of both fundamentalist Christians and weak, insipid Leftists.
<endquote>

Dozer, I think you are more than well on your way to self-actualistion. The pundits, priests, imams and others out there will tell you theirs is the best and only way. Ours is each a personal journey (religious or not).

Politicians universally try to fool us into thinking the same way - even using religion as a tool to coerce. As the priests would say: "only the weak would follow them".

Keep up the critical thinking and the critique. It is sadly missed in this McAustralia.
Posted by Iluvatar, Monday, 22 October 2007 3:55:17 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Thankyou Illuvator,

Not quite the response I was expecting either. I'm learning the hard way that if you speak your mind and don't pull any punches, instead of meekly trying to find some common ground, it pays off.

Cheers,

Bulldozer.
Posted by dozer, Thursday, 25 October 2007 2:32:39 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Poor 'Pastor' Danny. I like the guy. He has a good heart but doesn't understand apostolic Faith and so our Danny boy is imitating Billy Graham; a little Aussie version. Sorry to tell you Danny, it doesn't work here in Australia. The USA is a nation that looks for oracles as it is a puritan nation at heart, not Christian.

Now as a Catholic, we are taught that to be truly Christian we must neither be defined by terms like 'left' or 'right' or 'conservative'; just plain Catholic is enough.

Our Lord's Gospel is about being traditional which is not to be confused with the traditions of men but with the meaning ST paul tells us that is, what is handed on and down by word of mouth or by Epistle.
For Committed Christians most are called to be good fathers and mothers , brothers and sisters, workers and employers and so on; only a few are for politics. But ALL of us are called to BE in Christ not just at home but in our workplaces, to our neighbours, to strangers, to our enemies and so on.
Posted by Webby, Thursday, 25 October 2007 8:20:11 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
As for issues like abortion, RU486, industrail realtions etc- if a Christian is motivated to enter politics- it is to one's political party ( or of no party) of preference.
God is not on any one side. The ALP has a pro abortion policy however, some of its MPs are against abortion and RU486 etc and vote accordingly; others pretend to be Christian, say they are etc but vote like devils for the other side. The Liberal and National Party, whilst not having a stated policy on abortion allow it to be funded through Medicare and pornography is allowed through tthe Federal Liberal Govt. Now the ALP will do the same.
That is why the largely Protestant Pentecostals, and sadly some 'conservative'( read moneyed) Catholics support the Libs- all are feigning ignorance here. The Libs are not a Christian 'party of God'. That is all a superficial front.
Christians are free to enter any of the parties to influence; and for those who do not and just vote ( the vast majority) the only consideration is to put Jesus Our Lord FIRST by only voting for candidates in one's electorate and the Senate that have at least a pro life voting record. So if one is a Labor man ( as I am) I can only vote for an ALP candidate if that candiate is pro life; if not I would never vote Liberal because of their greed on behalf of employers to defraud workers of jsut wages, RDOs etc which affect family time and providing for wife and kids if there is the traditional male breadwinner situation.
There are no winners in politics because thus far, all the main parties have put Jesus Christ SECOND in their policies.
Last time I voted ALP was 3 elections ago. I have been voting for the Fred Nile CDP or pro life independents.
But I do hope that the ALP gets a new crop of real Catholics of the traditional kind in it in the future.
Posted by Webby, Thursday, 25 October 2007 8:24:01 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Webby,

Blah blah blah blah blah.

Dozer.
Posted by dozer, Monday, 29 October 2007 8:52:28 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
There have been no winners at any Federal or State election since the early 1980s except for fund managers, banks and other large corporations.

A win for Rudd is a win for just another Liberal Party that goes the nominalism of ALP.
Australia needs a traditional Catholic influenced ALP that will first and foremost protect the lives of unborn Aussie children who are murdered at the rate of 100,000 each year.
The silly anti- Catholic Pentecostalist Danny N has 'annointed' ( gimme a break) Peter Costello and the Liberal Party. Danny N is of no real influence as Aussies are not bible bashing Protestants. Danny is a Billy Graham wannabe.
Peter Costello ( if Danny has done any serious homework) supports RU486 abortion inducing drugs. Some 'Christian' you are Danny !
Go join the ranks of neo modernist and liberalist 'Catholics' who are agaisnt the traditional & magisterial ( ie real) Catholics.
Posted by Webby, Monday, 29 October 2007 9:16:16 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Heyyyy wait a minute there young Webby :)

"Australia needs a traditional Catholic influenced ALP"

grrr ... even I don't claim that we need a 'name_the_denomination' influenced politics. I would be happy if politicians spent more time in 'quiet times' between themselves and the Lord, rather than pandering to a specific denomination. Christians pretty much are of one heart on the issue of protecting unborn life arn't they ?

We all might do well to read what Naliah actually said..... and it's nothing like the 'rumor' that got to me over the weekend which said "Danny Naliah believes he is the reincarnation of the prophet Samuel" -not a bit....

http://www.windfarm.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=86&Itemid=70

His email is there.

His 'prediction' that Howard will win is also conditional "If the body of Christ unites in prayer" etc...

Matheson is reading more into Nalliah's words than should be.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Tuesday, 30 October 2007 7:13:04 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Family First is Pentecostalist, the Liberal Party is for former Baptists who become Anglican as part fo the social climb eg Costello. The DLP which was a mainly traditional Catholic breakaway from the ALP visited all the Protestant groupings during the 50s and 1960s and they didn;t want to pitch in.
Queit times for prayer are good however one should always pander to the Catholic Church ( which is not a denomination).
Before Protestant 'evangelicalism' in the USA , and now sadly here in Oz, became the fad it is, the Southern baptists used to support Roe VS Wade and contraceptive pills simply on the basbis that catholics were opposed. Happy now that Baptists ahve joined the trolley bus but they were slow getting out of the blocks.

It is also good that Catholic Archbishops Barry Hickey of Perth WA and Cardinal George Pell of Sydney say publicly to politicians to remember Church teaching when voting on life issues. Taht caused both state parliaments to call the two archbishops before them on charges of contempt !! Both were recently exhonorated thankfully. So much for leaving things to allegedly praying politicians ( many of whom are renegade Catholic and rnegade Protestants who say they pray etc , and perhaps they do... but then go on to vote for abortion and RU486 etc etc).
To be of one heart one must be aligned with moral truths in terms of all the dimensions of the 10 commandments.
Posted by Webby, Tuesday, 30 October 2007 7:59:53 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
One of the reasons - probably the main reason - why I follow all this god-bothering stuff, is that this century will see the growth and proliferation of various forms of religion-as-a-weapon. So in the traditions of know thy enemy, I feel obliged to try and keep up with the discussions,even though it can become incredibly mind-bending at times.

So Webby, can you please expand on this throwaway line of yours?

>>one should always pander to the Catholic Church (which is not a denomination)<<

If it is not a "denomination" (n. a group of religious congregations having its own organization and a distinctive faith), then what is it?

But even more, why is it important whether it is, or isn't, a denomination?
Posted by Pericles, Tuesday, 30 October 2007 9:15:39 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The Catholic Church is not a derivative of any other organisation. Hence it is THE nom-ination. Those who broke away 1500 years ago are referred to as de-nominations.
It is important in terms of knowing that the Catholic Church is the ONE TRUE Church, founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ.
'Know they enemy'? I would ahve thought that the evidence is in for the 19th and 20th centuries that the perpetrators of genocide are the non -religious:
Hitler
Mai Tse Tung
Pol Pot
Napoleon
Josef Stalin
Many other non -religious persons whoare honest actually side with Catholics on pro life and other issues to their credit.
Posted by Webby, Tuesday, 30 October 2007 10:27:25 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Sorry Webby, that piece of attempted verbal chicanery simply doesn't work.

The word "denomination" comes to us straight from the Latin "denominare", a combination of de- "completely" + nominare "to name."

As long ago as 1398 it was used to define "a naming," or "a calling by anything other than its proper name, metonymy."

So I'm afraid your protestation that:

>>The Catholic Church is not a derivative of any other organisation. Hence it is THE nom-ination. Those who broke away 1500 years ago are referred to as de-nominations...<<

... falls flat on its face.

I don't particularly care one way or the other whether you believe your religion to be the "one and only",. But I do care when people misuse and manipulate the English language simply to make their point.
Posted by Pericles, Tuesday, 30 October 2007 11:19:43 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Webby,

You are mistaken to label the mass-murderers Hitler, Mai (sic) Tse Tung, Pol Pot, Napolean, and Josef Stalin as "non-religious." It's a very tired argument. Hitler and the Nazis were, if anything, neo-pagan. (Sorry pagans, but you can kiss my hairy little butt as well.) The Communists treated the works of Marx and Lenin, (and Mao in China and Cambodia,) as virtually sacred. Like the Nazis, a cult of personality raised the leader to god-like status, and the party took the place, both functionally and symbolically, of the church.

As for Napolean, one could criticize him and others such as Robbespierre, who were involved in the worst excesses of the French Revolution, as having irrationally high expectations of the power of rationality. They replaced a faith in god with a faith in rationality, rather than having a reasonable, logical understanding of their own limits, and the limits of what a society based on rationality could achieve. Hence, and sadly ironically, they followed the ideal of rationality in a religious manner. What was actually needed was more rationality.

As for abortion, I, like you, would like to see this despicable practice come to an end. However I, (interestingly) like many religious politicians who you are criticizing for their apparent hypocrisy, understand that to ban it would cause far greater misery and force many expectant mothers into awful desperation. A much simpler solution, but one which Catholics can't seem to get their heads around, would be to encourage people to be a little smarter about using contraception. (Doesn’t cover rape or abuse but that’s another matter.) The concept fits in perfectly with the ideal of personal responsibility. And frankly, if I can remember to wear a condom while having sex while being absolutely tanked, then it shouldn’t be too hard for the rest of society.

Pericles,

You have highlighted just one of many misunderstandings Christians have of the Latin and ancient Greek roots of terms that are fundamental to their faith. Keep it up.
Posted by dozer, Tuesday, 30 October 2007 12:21:20 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. ...
  6. 6
  7. 7
  8. 8
  9. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy