Once again Paul you collapse into the ethnic generalisation that "Palestinians are evil and can't be trusted". People used to say that about the blacks in South Africa as well; and even the Jews in Europe.

Lev,

Give it a rest.

Who won the recent Palestinian Authority legislative elections by a landslide? Could that be Hamas?

What is Hamas's policy towards Israel? Certainly not peace.

I don't think the Palestinians are evil. What I find absolutely incredible is the idea that after 50 years of conflict the two sides can live together under the effective control of the Palestinians. However it is hardly surprising that many Palestinians aren't averse to the idea.

I'm not surprised that soft lefters like you and Dr Karmi support the idea. Mao had a special place reserved for his 'useful idiots' of the western left. Seems Hamas has their own

Paul,

As already explained to you in this discussion, Hamas was formed as a direct result of the continuing military occupation of Gaza by Israel, and the latter's constant failure to recognise a Palestinian state or to abide by UN Security Council Resolutions of the same.

Anyone who has the capacity to understand another person's situation would understand why an organisation like Hamas would arise under the circumstances of this occupation. Those who lack the cognitive ability and can only understand their own sectional interests of course just one get this.

Let me rephrase what you just posted, with some substitution

"I don't think the blacks are evil. What I find absolutely incredible is the idea that after 50 years of conflict the two sides can live together under the effective control of the African National Congress. However it is hardly surprising that many blacks aren't averse to the idea."

One day the penny might drop.

PS: "Useful idiots" was purported to have been said by Lenin, not Mao. It receives mention in "They Never Said It: A Book of Fake
Quotes, Misquotes and Misleading Attributions". Once again, you're just making things up for pejorative purposes.

Lev,

Here was me thinking we were exchanging opinions.

>> As already explained to you in this discussion,

I found it astounding that you believe you have the wherewithawal to explain anything to anyone. You don’t explain anything to me. You don’t have the knowledge or the understanding. The best you can hope for is a rather ‘airy fairy’ rationalization of your bizarre and frankly ridiculous ideas. Your naïve suggestion that Hamas is merely an instrument for opposing the “occupation” misses the point entirely. Hamas is an end in itself. The reimposition of Sharia Law and the return of the Caliphate are real goals. Not a response to anything Israel has done. This is a phenomena which can be seen across the Islamic world.

The tired old leftist explanations are trotted out again. The formation of Al Qaeda is in response to imperialist aggression and the ensuing poverty and dispossession? Bullsh!t. Middle class boys who have never known want are becoming human bombs for Al Qaeda.

Hamas is part of a global movement in Islam towards rigid orthodoxy. The war against the west is only the preliminary step . It’s the catalyst for bringing the faithful back to the fold. Al Qaeda provoked the war with the west for exactly that reason.

Let me rephrase my own quote substituting Serbs and Kosovars, or Mugabe/Zanu PF and Rhodesians. Why not try Indonesians and East Timorese.

The reasons for the regular comparisons with South Africa are obvious and self serving. They don’t hold water.

As regards the “Useful idiots” all I can say is, if the shoe fits …

"I found it astounding that you believe you have the wherewithawal to explain anything to anyone."

I do expect them to remember things that have already been discussed.

"The best you can hope for is a rather ‘airy fairy’ rationalization of your bizarre and frankly ridiculous ideas."

Like universal human rights and the basic principles for establishing a democratic and secular social system? You can call them what you like. Frankly, you don't matter.

"Your naïve suggestion that Hamas is merely an instrument for opposing the “occupation” misses the point entirely."

No, the point is, as already explained, that Hamas will become a tiny minority if the conditions that gave rise to their existence were removed. Just like the rise of the mujahadeen in Afghanistan and all that follows. Bad foreign policy, bad funding decisions and bad results.

"The reasons for the regular comparisons with South Africa are obvious and self serving. They don’t hold water."

Except for the fact of hafrada.

"As regards the “Useful idiots” all I can say is, if the shoe fits …"

We once again discover your inability to acknowledge a mistake. That's the real idiocy.

Lev - if by research you mean that I don't read and remember all of your postings, then at least on the second count you are right. But I think I can sympathetically present your opinion:

You believe the most moral solution to the fact that (the mostly Jewish) Israelis and (the mostly Muslim) Palestinians wish to live in the same place is for them to live in the same secular nation. You also think that this solution is gaining support, but that a lack of support doesn't make it wrong, only more distant. If a secular state is established, and both Israelis and Palestinians allowed to live in it, then support for the ultra-religious of Palestinian (and Israeli) factions will diminish if not disappear. In the meantime, actions should be taken to support the secularisation of Israel (and the Palestinian Authority).

I think it is a very brave hope to say that with the secularisation of a state that Jews and Muslims, by far the majority religions in the proposed state, are supposed to live in, would mean that support for the ultra-religious of each religion would reduce.
It would seem there are enough Jews who wish to have a Jewish nation, as a refuge against the antisemitism Jews have experienced for 2000 years, at the hands of both christian, secular and Islamic nations.
It would also seem that there are quite enough Muslims who will never accept a Jewish state anywhere, but especially in the heart of an area they say should be ruled under their system. The insistance by the Muslim states on the right of return, along with the keeping of the Palestinians hostage in refugee camps, is proof enough of this.
It's only when Islam accepts that it doesn't have a right to dominate, and then Islamise, a Jewish homeland in the Middle East, that Israel will not be at war.