Paul,

You claim: "The MAJOR failing of the ONE state solution is that only the Islamic extremists want it."

Why do you make such demonstrably false statements, when a modicum of research proves otherwise?

Is Dr. Karmi a Islamic extremist? Am I an Islamic extremist? Is New York University's Tony Judt an Islamic extremist? Virginia Tilley (author of "The One-State Solution")? Ali Abunimah (author of "One Country")? The Israeli journalists Haim Hanegbi and Daniel Gavron? Former Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qurei? Meron Benvenisti, the former deputy mayor of Jerusalem?

If I may also repeat from my post of October 19, which you seem to have forgotten.

"... the proposal for one secular and democratic state is a minority one - but one with wide support. From the Orthodox Jews it is supported by Natueri Karta and the Satmar Hasidim groups. In Switzerland a group founded by a Palestinian lawyer has several hundred members, both Jews and Palestinians. In Jersualem there is Rabbis For Peace and the Emil Touma Institute. The Right of Return Coalition (Al-Awda) support the solution. There are groups advocating the position in the UK and the US, with the Greens adopting it in their platform. Even Qadhafi, with Libya just elected to the Security Council, supports the idea on the grounds "no other concept is capable of resolving the problem".

Please point out the Islamic extremists in the following list:
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article9134.shtml

Are all these people Islamic extremists as well?

I think you've made a very, very silly claim and it's time to wipe some egg from your face.

Lev - you might not care if Jews are outnumbered by Muslims in Israel but, I imagine that if such a result were to come to pass, your lack of caring may soon be replaced by something else. And your lack of caring is not going to protect those whose safety you seem rather blase about. A short question: what if those Muslims who came to dominate Israel were of the Hammas variety, rather than the PLO variety?
I agree with Paul that religion seems to be becoming more, not less, important in the region, and that Islam's inability to separate politics from religion makes this shift a political problem.
Even the Zoroastrians of Iran suffer under religious persecution, and they were supposed to be protected by dhimma too.

Camo, I have already mention numerous times in this thread that a precondition for a single-state is a secular and democratic political system. I do not support the sort of state that Hamas proposes. Please stop making me repeat myself, it just makes you look like you haven't done your research.

Lev

I'm so sorry. When I suggested that of the tens of millions of Jews and Palestinians only the Islamic extremists supported a one state solution I forgot to name the HANDFUL of cranks who aren't Islamic extremists.

I wasn't suggesting that Dr Karmi was an Islamic extremist. I wasn't counting her at all since I didn't have space to acknowledge every CRANK idea or group. Its just as valid to suggest that there are non Islamic extremists who want a one state solution because it will be easier for the aliens to visit. There is a holder of every bizarre idea somewhere. In the same vein you could deny that Australia has a “two party” democratic system, because OF COURSE that would be neglecting the What Women Want Party.

What you are neglecting to address is the fact that the “optimal” solution is almost never able to be implemented. The theoretically appropriate solution, in practice is totally absurd.

And that is where your solution fails. Without widespread support for a one state solution in BOTH Israel and Palestine it will NEVER work. What's worse is that you write off a workable solution which might be acceptable to the vast majority of Israelis and Palestinians because it doesn’t fit your neat, utopian outlook.

Egg on my face? Coming from someone with a slim grip on reality that’s an interesting accusation.

Paul,

As per a previous post it is evident that it will never be implemented whilst people with a Cassandra-complex like yourself doom it to failure. You claim something is the "right theory", but refuse to even try it in practise - rather like a peasant who refused to adopt basic mathematics to measure their plots of land, favouring measuring sticks instead.

The reality is that the "one, secular, democratic state" idea is growing in popularity both in Israel and in Palestine and at a very rapid pace. If you were more aware of current events in the region you would know this. You would know that many of the leading Palestinian and Israeli intellectuals now support the idea and that it is advocated in their newspapers and journals. You would know that this year, the UN special envoy , Alvaro de Soto, from a leaked document acknowledged the widespread support that it now commands among Palestianians, Israeli Arabs, and among the Jewish left. You would be aware of Ehud Barak's comments on the matter: "... that [a] single state will have to be in the spirit of the 21st century: democratic, secular, one-man, one-vote. One-man, one-vote? Remind you of something? Yes. South Africa. And that's no accident. It's precisely their intention."

Former Israeli Prime Minister's discussing the option. Heads of state supporting it. Supported by leading academics, authors, religious figures and political activists across the two communities and internationally. It's a growing proposition; because good theory can, with the right will, lead to good practise..

As a result of your comments, I have just joined The Association for One Democratic State in Palestine - Israel.

PS: I think that egg is poached. ;-)

Its seems to me that it is those with a “pollyanna” complex are standing in the way of real progress.

I didn’t realize that keeping up to date with the “communist quaterly” and the “marxist weekly” meant you had your finger on the pulse on middle east issues.

>> You claim something is the "right theory", but refuse to even try it in practice

I’m not refusing to try it in practice. I’m suggesting to you that virtually no one concerned wants to try it in practice. What you call leading Israeli and Palestinian intellectuals; are they in fact doyens of the left? Ie irrelevant?

A germ could be considered to grow at a very fast pace if it increased by a cubic factor over a certain period. If there were only two to start with however, they’ve only increased their number by 6.

I am well aware of the support for a one state solution among Palestinians and Israeli arabs. If you honestly think it’s because they want to share power and live happily with the Jews then “Pollyanna” isn’t even close to being an accurate description.

You have totally misrepresented Ehud Baraks comments. He was talking about the failure of South Africa and the use, by the ANC, of the one man one vote concept to effectively dominate the political process.

>> demographic trends will redefine the Arab-Jewish population balance … by 2020 the balance is likely to be 60-40 in favour of the Arabs.
http://www.one-democratic-state.org/articles/khalidi.html

Do you honestly believe the Palestinians and Israeli-Arabs would support a one man one vote concept if it was the Jews who had superior numbers?

>>, I have just joined The Association for One Democratic State in Palestine - Israel

You think the egg is poached? I can see that you have finally let your fantasies take flight. Good for you. I wonder if you’re joining the “lets all hold hands and have puppies and then all the mean people will go away” party? I’m sue its membership is growing as well.