But wait, there's more fine examples of subordinate Turkish Muslims:

Islam taking root in Turkey's bureaucracy
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/05/29/news/turkey.php?page=1

Judge shot dead in Turkish ban on headscarves
http://abandonskip.blogspot.com/2007/05/judge-shot-dead-in-turkish-ban-on.html

Turkey is more Islamophobic than the West (although secularists are a dying breed there now). Why? They've been there, done sharia. You would have thought they'd be smart enough not to want to go back, but it seems they're just as dumb as the West - now letting Islam spread unfettered until it takes over.

Is there such a thing as an Australian Muslim?

Answer: NO.

There are Muslims co-existing in Australia.

The article fails to describe what Islam really means to a true Muslim. A Muslim cannot become "secular" without abandoning his/her ‘Islamicity’. Every aspect of existence revolves around and is derived from the ‘sunnah’ and the 'shari'a', i.e. the religion itself.

They can enjoy the footy, and even appear at the odd bbq; but religion is their TOTAL uncompromisable way of life that does NOT include “the other” Australian way of life.

So because “they” cannot accept “US” – they seek to change “US” to conform to their narrow way of life. The process is called Da’wa or invitation (to Islam).

So who is stereotyping whom here

Coach, Runner, and other Islamophobics,

You just don't get to define 'others'.

It's extraordinarily arrogant of you to think you can be judge and jury to others.

What a disturbing representation of the ugly racist undertones in Australia.

Scary stuff! I'd hate someone to define me as an Australian based on the comments made by the rednecks in the crowd.

Liza,

Did anybody mention race above? Maybe Liz thinks "Islam" is a racial category?

No we are not judge and jury. Just our own private 'judges' exercizing our right to have opinions. Are you against freedom of speech? Evidently so! (it appears that this phd-plus individual has no concept of individual rights - and doest know the difference between 'race' and 'religion').

To be Australian, or liberal or of the West means to stand up for equality and human rights. It means that the same rules apply to everybody everywhere.

Muslims in Australia, in case you have not noticed, walk the streets, hold jobs, drive cars, wear blankets, build mosques, vote, worship Allah, and even preach hate. This is their right. Now do you care to know about how non-Muslims are treated in Islamic societies? You know but don't care.

Muslims in Australia pretend that what Muslims do in other societies has nothing to do withthem, or Islam. They pretend that Islam is about love and tolerance when the Quran, hadith and their actions say otherwise. This is morally repulsive and intellectually dishonest, yet it is what they - and you - accept.

To tell the truth about Islam and its dear prophet isnt hate or racism. It is an opinion based on facts. It is history - Islam's own history. It is current events.

Things are going to get worse because people like you don't care about truth or human rights, only feelings and meaningless, fancy words.

Tell me, Liza, have you ever read the hadiths? How about Tabari or Kathir? Do you think the actions of Islam's prophet are morally acceptable as narrated in hundreds of accounts? I am talking murder, persecution, enslavement, torture, plunder, rape and Mohammad even beating his wife... Yes, these are ugly, simple words, so they are not your style, I guess.

Oh yes, if you talk about these things Muslims and the PC Multiculturalist establishment that fund your work will no longer pat you on the back and say the sweet things you like to hear - so screw the suffering masses!

Kactuz

LIZ
the danger of your statement:

[It's extraordinarily arrogant of you to think you can be judge and jury to others.
What a disturbing representation of the ugly racist undertones in Australia.]

is this.... in the same way as you are charging the 'Islamophobics' of being racist this and that.. (i.e. you are lumping them all in one bucket), you are also lumping all Muslims in the same bucket.

Your choice is to lump them in a 'good/friendly/peaceful' bucket.

Just as there are extremes in Aussie society, there are extremes in the Islamic camp. What some are pointing out, is what they feel underpins those extremes, they are saying that this body of information, when taken up by the extremists, is dangerous for us.

Just as we need to be careful not to call 'Australians' racist for the actions of a few, we also need to avoid minimizing the danger of extremists whether they be Marxist rent-a-crowd, Abortion clinic bombers, or Islamists.

Kactuz is pointing you to certain information, which I doubt you have read. I strongly urge you to do so, and bring yourself up to speed on this. At least then you will be critical from an informed perspective rather than an uninformed doctrinal one that you are currently espousing.

The point you seem to miss, is that if I'd had a meeting with the likes of Sheikh Benbrika (who will not stand for the magistrate in the courtroom) rather than the friendly FH yesterday, the outcome of our time may have been less warm than it was.
Not all Muslims are friendly or peaceful, just like not all Australians are. Learn to differentiate.

More "subordinate" Muslims of Turkish origin, this time in Germany:

"Germany's Integration Summit Clouded by Turkish Boycott

11.07.2007

Upset by the government's recent changes to the immigration law, four leading Turkish groups are boycotting an integration summit ...

A summit meant to ease the lives of Germany's estimated 15 million immigrants hit a major hurdle when four Turkish groups representing a chunk of the foreign population threatened to withdraw from talks this week with Chancellor Angela Merkel's government.

The groups, who were part of the first such integration summit held last year, say they feel hurt and discriminated against by the government's recent changes to a 2005 immigration law which tightens restrictions on foreign spouses joining their non-German partners in Germany ...

Turks make up the largest group among the country's 6.7 million foreigners. But Turkish groups are irked that the regulation only applies to non-Germans."

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2678315,00.html

Are the Turkish Muslims in Germany also the victims of an inaccurate media stereotype?. Are there Lebanese in Germany giving Muslims a bad name? Please explain why Turkish immigrants in Germany with such "fierce historic commitment to national secularism" need an integration summit in the first place.

It is noted that Turkish Muslims in Australia do not have a profile for trouble like the Lebanese. Nonetheless, there are genuine, rational, fears of all Muslims - Germany and Turkey demonstrate this. If you're into nuance and subtlety, you might see this.