Hi Paul,

“Violence erupted across the Muslim world”
Excluding the criminal behaviour by some (ie destruction of property), few thousands per country have protested in the streets in a loud but peaceful manner. Millions couldn’t care or just protested silently. Media hype is always there and I use the example of Cronulla riots: if we are to believe the BBC, then we should believe half of Sydney were drunk on the streets assaulting dark people.

“ Your emphasis on the hadith being collected hundreds of years after the death of Mohammed seems to suggest that therefore the hadith can be ignored by Muslims”

A study of Islamic history shows that the hadith was ignored by the prophet and his caliphates (following leaders). Prophet Mohammed was clear on the teachings of the message (the Quran) and didn’t want followers to idolate him. A famous incident by Caliph Omar that he went and cut the tree where the prophet used to sit so people won’t take it as an idol.

Although one can be a Muslim without the hadith, its importance is in its of the prophet rituals and spirituality and also teach us things like how to pray. Hadith is taken carefully and widely known hadith doesn’t exceed 200-300 hundreds at best.

“Hadith seems to give Muslims permission to kill Ali Hirsi"

Please find below my previous answer to Steven regarding the same issue of apostate:
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=758#13338
.

“55% of Muslim youth in Britain felt that 7/7 was justified”

I would hold the parents and the community accountable for failing to manage the youth. Community includes as they should find channels for you th to vent their anger constructively. Its OK for a youth to be angry given the circumstances and the age group. But by no means should they use that as a justification to murder civilians. If they are angry about Iraq or other UK policies they should know and be taught that two wrongs never made a right.

Peace,

Fellow-Human, the term 'treason' is used as an excuse by Muslims who don't want to face the truth. That is, Mohammad is directly responsible for the massacre of 800-900 Jews (according to Ibn Ishaq) from the Banu Qurayza tribe.

Really, the accusation of 'treason' is a moot point. While the Banu Quraysa didn't fight for Mohammad as promised, neither did they fight against him either. Apart from a few minor skirmishes during the Battle of the Trench they remained neutral.

The execution of POW who have surrended unconditionally is bad enough but Mohammad also chose to sell the women and children off into slavery once the men had been decapitatd. He then had the callous gall to take a Jewish concubine (called Rayhana) as sexual booty.

Fellow-Human, even if you do manage to hide behind the accusation of 'treason' do you really think that such wanton violence is becoming of an esteemed religious figure? I can't imagine Jesus or Buddha participating in such blood letting.

And I certainly won't be using the life-story of Mohammad to teach my three children morality and compassion!

TR,

If you want to dwell on it at least get the detailed facts straight:

• Ibn Ishaq quotes that the sources of the story was the descendants of Banu Quraysa themselves. Ibn Ishaq died in 151 (145 years after the event).
• One authority, Ibn Hajar, denounces this story and the other related ones as "odd tales"
• A contemporary of Ibn Ishaq, Malik, the jurist, denounces Ibn Ishaq outright as "a liar" and "an impostor"12 just for transmitting such stories.

Anyway, will assume the story is ok for the discussion sake.
Anyway, let assume there is a country in a state of war and the king of the country made peace and alliances with the Jewish Tribes to ensure enemies won’t attack from their territories. So all Jewish tribes honour their agreement except for one, who opened the gates for the enemy to slaughter women and children. The king comes back from war to investigate (he honoured peace treaties with all the other tribes) the culprits. He sieged the tribe until they gave in the traitors.

He didn’t judge them and instead asked them to nominate a judge of their choice (they chose an ally: Saád). The sentence was executed. POW is an enemy combatant caught in the battle field. It does not apply to a local resident who became a spy or traitor and harm your civilians during war time. If Australia is at war with N. Korea and we catch a spy working with the enemy to harm Aussies, do you call that a spy and charge him or a POW? Your prejudice is clouding your sense of reason.

Mohammed pbuh was a prophet king (ie like Moses) so comparison with spiritual teachings only doesn't apply.

Peace,

A great article.

Benjamin, are you really piss-ignorant or just pretending to be? Please say it's not really true that you are in any way connected to the legal profession. How did you get through High School in the first place? The difference between an Obiter Dictum or Ratio Decidendi in a judgment will be totally beyond you.

By the way, don't get all the brown people with accents mixed up. The caste system of India is not Muslim.

As to the Western nations ruling the non-Western nations. You were born about 400 years too late. It's been tried before with the resulting messes in Africa, Middle East and Asia. Who do you think drew all those borders on the world map?

Fellow Human, you are patient as always.

How do some come to the conclusion that Bashir Goth is anti-Islam? In the past he wrote a beautiful piece directed to his son about his memories of celebrating some Muslim celebrations, like Ramadan. It brought me back to my youth. Though non-Muslim, still enjoyed some of the fun with my Muslim peers!

F_H

Your logic helps the readers here understand how warped one can become if you follow Muhammed's doctrines. By your logic, you suggest we (non-muslims) should round up all muslims for creating "tumult and persecution" in the world. Just like Muhammed did, he did'nt just round up the culprits. Instead, he rounded up all the men of the Banu Quraysh who had pubic hair and allowed them to be beheaded.

I guess you will keep bleating that this story in Alhadith was added by Christian Missionaries. But let's have a look at the incitement to divisiveness in Quran, the eternal immutable Holy word from Allah himself:

"Oh you who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find harshness in you. (Q.9:123)

I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off. (Q.8:12)

Whoso desires another religion than Islam, it shall not be accepted of him. (Q.3:85)

Slay the idolaters wherever you find them. (Q.9:5)

Kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from wherever they drove you out. (Q.2:191)

Fight them on until there is no more dissention and religion becomes that of Allâh. (Q.9:193)

Fight them, and Allâh will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame. (Q.9:14)

Make no excuses: you have rejected Faith after you had accepted it. If We pardon some of you, We will punish others amongst you, for that they are in sin. (Q.9:66)

You who believe! Verily, the Mushrikûn (unbelievers) are Najasun (impure). So let them not come near Al-Masjid-al-Harâm (the grand mosque at Mecca ) after this year. (Q.9:28)

Fight those who do not believe in Allâh and the last day... and fight People of the Book, who do not accept the religion of truth (Islam) until they pay tribute by hand, being inferior. (Q.9:29)"

I am concerned, that according to your religious writ, I am to be killed for rejecting Islam. That is why the followers of such doctrines commit violence. They strongly believe Allah is telling them to.

Your fluffy portrayal of Islam is incorrect.

Hi Yvonne,

I actually like Bashir and I understand the message of modernization he is trying to convey. Although I think many muslims I talk to are hyper sensitive to Rushdie’ s writings. I have to admit I was a bit annoyed with Rushdie’s writing when I was at high school, but later I found out that’s just who he is: the man have no respect for any religious faith or affiliation and slant black, Jews (indirectly of course, he is a smart fellow).

Bassam,

Have you actually studied anything about Islam or someone sent you a couple of Islam bashing links?

I will assume you have good intentions and have been mislead. I would like to correct you from your own quotes (Using the Pickhall translation available at Dymmocks for $9.95):

1. “Kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from wherever they drove you out. (Q.2:191)”
The whole verses read:
“But if they desist, then Allah is most forgiving (2:192) And fight them until persecution is no more …but if they desist, let there be no hostility except for the wrong doers (2:193)”

2. “Slay the idolaters wherever you find them (Q9:5)”

That’s also incorrect, the whole verse reads: “but if they repent, establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful” (Q9:5) .And if any of the idolaters seek thy protection then protect him… and convey him to his place of safety..(Q9:6)

When you mention the whole section, any child can now understand that war is only allowed in land defense in a time of war. The whole 19 references in the Quran relating to war have boundaries of ‘fight those who fight you and shall not transgress’ (ie army versus army).

“I am concerned, that according to your religious writ, I am to be killed for rejecting Islam”

History proves this statement wrong and ill founded, Christian arabs and Jews lived between their Muslim ‘brethren’ for the last 14 centuries.

Peace,