Fellow Human
I feel the need to call to attention the absolutely absurd/dangerous passages which exist in the Bible. I am sure there are many more.

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.
He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord. A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the Lord.
But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.

And it came to pass on the when they were sore, that two of the sons of Jacob, Simeon and Levi, Dinah's brethren, took each man his sword, and came upon the city boldly, and slew all the males. And they slew Hamor and Shechem his son with the edge of the sword, and took Dinah out of Shechem's house, and went out. The sons of Jacob came upon the slain, and spoiled the city, because they had defiled their sister.

I think there is no sense in denying that there are passages in both texts which can be taken to absurd conclusions. So I accept your position that there ARE moderate muslims who we should be trying to reach.

Fellow Human please tell me how we can do this when the Muslim Community votes Sheik Hillali their man of the year of 2005? How can we do this when the Islamic council offered to renew his post this year? Its almost like us voting coach or one of the other evangelicals our representative to the muslim community. Totally inappropriate

Hi Paul,

Hilali’s prize 2005 maybe was related to his efforts in releasing the Australian hostage in Iraq. Hilali lost his popularity long before then although the media kept him in focus because he sells. As for the dialogue question, there are many forums and it need not to go through clergy and can start one to one. FH_Paul is already a dialogue. Once there is a dozen on each side that’s already a community of interest.

Bassam,

I will conclude you ran out of steam and you are just too proud to admit you were brain washed.

Peace,

FH,
Small point of interest. Are you saying that Hillali doesn't represent the values held by the lakemba muslims? As I said somewehere else, the Islamic council offered to retain him for another term in March this year. Clearly the community thinks he's the right person to be leading them in prayer or else they wouldn't go to his mosque. And it's the largest mosque in Australia. What am I missing.

I think you have helped convince me that it's not Islam at fault here. Its the interpretation. Unfortunately for us, the number of people choosing to interpret it the wrong way are growing. These people are already in our communities and we are having a very hard time telling them apart from the good guys. Hillali doesn't help.

Hi Paul,

“Small point of interest. Are you saying that Hillali doesn't represent the values held by the lakemba muslims? As I said somewhere else, the Islamic council offered to retain him for another term in March this year. Clearly the community thinks he's the right person to be leading them in prayer or else they wouldn't go to his mosque. And it's the largest mosque in Australia. What am I missing”.

You are not missing anything let me explain.
The challenge that Muslims had with Hilali’s role that it was self created, which probably why it took so long to vote him out. Most Muslims I know (Arab Muslims) have little opinion of him and believe he is a politician ‘wanna be’and not a scholar. He did few good things (like his efforts to release the Aussie hostage in Iraq) But think where he failed is he became a political spokesman of the Lebanese Muslim community. Many of the sympathy with Hilali were due to the constant media attacks on his character. I don’t like him but I don’t like the media ranting about a 70 y.o. man either.

Lakemba isn’t the largest mosque in Australia its smaller than Auburn mosque for example. You made an assumption based on the Christian faith and it doesn’t apply to Islam. Its not accurate to assume because a Muslim is going to a special mosque that he/she supports the Imam’s views. Muslims must pray in certain times and the mosque is mainly out of convenience (closest to you in the time of prayer or close to your house, or where your friends go etc..). I prayed many times in mosques in different places and I can tell you I would know more about my faith than the speaker. I even challenged a Brisbane Imam once after Friday prayer because I disagreed with his speech.

Honestly I have seen so many new Aussie coverts over the years and I think many of them can and should replace the imported Imams and Mufti role.

Peace,

FH

You said:
"I will conclude you ran out of steam and you are just too proud to admit you were brain washed."

Calling me brainwashed is just another way of yours to devalue and silence my concerns. Just like when you called me dishonest. It shows you have "run out of steam".
For you to continue defending the atrocities commited by Muhammed indicates you are brainwashed yourself.

Your Sufi sophistry would have us believe that "kill (JIhad) the disbelievers" means "defend against the disbelievers", or "beat them (women)" means "admonish lightly".
For you to keep defending these rantings like you do, shows you are deceitful.

I will conclude that you love Muhammed so much that your ability to reason has diminished to the point of turning a blind eye to the atrocities he committed.

Bassam

'Peace as always, TR,

Not sure if your last comment was serious :- )
I like reading about mind power (I know dianteics is naive but never the less its a theory). I don't believe everything I read.'

Yes my comment was serious.

I thought you were being ironic - as in, people poke fun at Islam but think that the really nutty stuff like dianetics is somehow better or OK.

Fellow-Human, real science is a thousand times more interesting and fulfilling than pseudo-science. Please be a little more sceptical and don't fall for the usual traps.

Remember that the default position for any proposition is disbelief. Only believe something when there is hard tangible evidence.