Mr Gerrit H Schorel-Hlavka

The Wikipedia quotes regarding Unit 101 are an example of the weakness of this open source; it can be edited by anyone. Many anti-Israeli groups manipulate this information online trying to re-write history.

Originally the background part of the Unit 101 - Wikipedia, stated:

"The background to the founding of Unit 101 was the successful attacks on the state of Israel from its Arab neighbors during which hundreds of Israelis were killed."

As a result of this, the IDF adapted this doctrine and a new emphasis on mobility was designed. In accordance with the new doctrine of seeking out the enemy, in the summer of 1953 a special, secret unit was established (unit "101") to retaliate against Arab infiltration across the borders by striking at guerrilla bases inside enemy territory.

Unfortunately, like at present, those guerrilla bases were located within Arab villages. The unit never comprised more than forty-five soldiers, and was integrated into the paratroopers after only five months. Nevertheless, its success in actively dealing with
terrorist infiltrations coming from many Arab villages was incredible high, saving the life of many others of Israelis citizens, while stopping the infiltrations to a very minimum.

Today, an identical policy is carried out by the Dutch army in Afghanistan; I am attempting to obtain the reference if you should want it.

Words like "extermination" and "assassination" are not part of Israel's lexicon neither within its policy; but widely found in Israel's neighboring societies...

"Targeted killing" of terrorists, indeed is a matter of controversy, but fall under the rule of law.

Once considered a maverick, Sharon’s attitudes changed. At Camp David, Egypt’s President Anwar Sadat’s required Israeli settlements in the Sinai be dismantled, Begin called Sharon, who not only agreed, but also implemented this himself, removing settlers, some by force. He also evacuated four settlements in Samaria, and all those in Gaza. Sharon was willing to negotiate peace initiatives, even when Palestinians reacted to one offer with the Passover bombing.

Keith

I tried to show a traditional trait running through my family of being informed, independent thinkers. You found my comments problematic and illjudged. I apologise.

Your debating style:

“anomolies, contradicyions... and outright lies.”

From Israel:

Refugees from Darfur and Sudan.
(04/07/2007)

Israel cannot simply ignore refugees knocking on its gates. It must cooperate with the UN Commission for Refugees to deal with asylum seekers already here. The Israel of today can well afford to give refuge to some of the world's persecuted.

Humanitarian supplies transferred to the Gaza Strip:
(Israel Ministry : Summary June 15-30)

Despite the volatile security situation in the Gaza Strip and the constant threat of attacks on the crossings, food, fuel and other supplies are transported from Israel to the Gaza Strip through the various border crossings on a daily basis.

Food, fuel and other supplies are transported from Israel to the Gaza Strip through the various border crossings on a daily basis, and Palestinians in need of medical treatment are escorted by the Israeli army to Israeli hospitals. All humanitarian aid in the Gaza Strip is carried out in coordination with the Gaza District Coordination and Liaison Office.

Following is a summary of the humanitarian aid transferred from Israel to Gaza since June 15:
 
19-30 June
 
Flour & wheat - 18 truckloads
Basic commodities - 51 truckloads
Meat - 4 truckloads
Milk - 30 truckloads
Animal feed - 6 truckloads
Medicines & medical equipment - 6 truckloads
Fruit - 13 truckloads
Other goods - 5 truckloads
 
24-30 June
 
Flour and wheat - 36 truckloads
Rice - 5 truckloads
Cooking oil - 18 truckloads
Beans, etc. - 5 truckloads
Animal feed - 233 truckloads
Milk - 15 truckloads
Sugar, salt - 42 truckloads
Medicines & medical equipment - 7 truckloads
Fruit - 15 truckloads
Other goods - 15 truckloads
 
15 June, the following amounts of fuel to Gaza:
 
Gas - 2,100 tons (84 tankers)
Petrol, private use - 735,000 liters (17 tankers)
Diesel, private use - 4,937,000 liters (107 tankers)
Diesel, power plant - 4,800,000 liters (120 tankers)

Danielle,

I for one do not question your honest intentions but do belief you do come across as being bias towards Israel.
As for your history set out, I found it interesting and did not consider anything wrong with you stating it. I viewed it as being provided as “informative information” or “background information” and as such accepted it.

Having served in the Royal Dutch Armed forces at the then Iron Curtain in (then West) Germany we were trained, and I was a sharp-shooter, to cause minimal injury where possible. Also, to avoid civilians being injured.
If the Dutch army now uses different practices then I regret they do as it would not be as to what I learned and taught my soldiers.

I take the view that every soldier who questions the legal validity of a order of his superior must make this known immediately. Indeed, several British soldiers refused to serve in Iraq because they deemed it to be illegal, and I held they acted appropriate.
After all, if they had been deemed wrong they could at most face a court martial but if they had gone into Iraq killed someone they could have faced murder, as I view every invading soldier should face such charge if they were involved in killing innocent civilians. And, so politicians who authorised such illegal invasion.
I do therefore not accept Moffat for Israel to commit assassinations as no DEMOCRATIC state can authorise this, as no DEMOCRATIC country can have this as DUE PROCESS OF LAW.

I INVITE YOU TO SHOW THE RELEVANT LEGISLATIVE PROVISIONS THAT ALLOW FOR ASSASSINATIONS/EXECUTIONS OF SOLDIERS IN SUCH MANNER TO BE LEGALLY PERMITTED!

Danielle,

Outright lies:

1. 'I am ignoring your abuse and catcalls from the sidelines, and will not respond'
Danielle post Friday 22 June.
Check all my previous posts on this thread. All I'd done was challenge your views... there was no abuse nor cat-calling.

2.'You hate the idea of a Palestinian modern, independent state ... Clearly they want one.'
Danielle post Sunday 30 June.
'I am familiar with your writings on the subject;'
Danielle post Friday 22 June.

My opinions are on the public record. You acknowledge you are familiar with them. You would then know I support the establishment of a Palestinian state, for that is clearly stated.

3.'Israel’s security fence goes along the Green Line - the 1949 armistice line.'

Danielle post Tuesday 26 June.

Refer to my post of 26 June. You've never acknowledged nor retracted your obviously incorrect claim. Since you are obviously unwilling to do that the statement as it stands now is a lie.

Anomaly:

'The UN confirmed that Israel had completed withdrawl for southern Lebanon (Security Council endorces Secretary General’s conclusion on Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon as of the 16th June) (UN Press Release, June 18, 2000)'

Danielle Tuesday 26 June.

To be consistant you'd have to agree Israel hasn't complied with numerous UN resolutions requesting it's withdrawal from the West Bank. I await your rectification of this anomaly with baited breath.

Contradictions:

1. 'There is no question that such combat would have been preferable to bombing them.'

'Incidentally, this is in no way a justification of using bombs,...'

Danielle Thursday 28 June.

Now what is it was it ok to bomb Lebanon or not ok to bomb Lebanon?

3. 'Now the Arab League calls on both Hamas and Hezbollah to recognise Israel’s right to exist..

Danielle Saturday 23 June.

'...there’s a reluctance to award citizenship to great numbers of a potentially hostile population (Palestinians) whose allies are sworn to the destruction of Israel.'

Danielle post Saturday 30 June.

Now are those allies the same Arab League nations who call for recognition of Israel's right to exist?

Cont

4. 5. 6. ....
'[Regarding Israel’s Law of Return, it grants citizenship to Jews, whatever race or nationality, including dark-skinned Ethiopians, Yeminis, and Indians; and whether secular, atheists, or religious'

Danielle Satuerday 23 June

'Israel does permit citizenship of Muslims from elswehere...'

Danielle Monday 25 June

'In permitting Arab Muslims to return, they would have residency status unless they wished to take out citizenship - this this would have been granted on the same conditions as other groups who wanted Israeli naturalization.'

Danielle Wednesday 27 June

Except Jewish immigrants.

'In 1967, 565,904 refugees lived in the West Bank. How many of the original 565,904 are still alive, and/or not living in Israel?

In Israel, Palestinian residents (if they should decline Israeli citizenship) have legal permanent residency.

PCBS (2006) report 2.5 million Palestines live in the West Bank.

Understandably, there’s a reluctance to award citizenship to great numbers of a potentially hostile population whose allies are sworn to the destruction of Israel.'

Does Israel discriminate against West Bank Refugee Muslim Arabs who are wishing to return to their Home in Israel or not?
Does Israel allow Citizenship on the same basis as it allows citizenship to Jews emigrating to Israel?

There are many many more in your meanderings but I'd thought I'd show you just how independantly thinking, forthright and informed I am.

BTW in my home we access CNN, FOX and BBC. We access on line the NYTimes, the Washington Post, the South China Morning Post, Haartz Daily and any world class newsservice we like. We read many websites that seeks to inform or pass opinion on world events. I wonder why you think people are authorities, on available news and Australians access to news in Australia, when they show they don't even consider the vast majority of Australians have access to, and do apparently access, all the latest news and opinion on line?
That's the modern trend...didn't you know? That shows that 'traditional trait ... of being informed, independent thinkers' hasn't quite caught up to your generation yet. But ... what negative family traits did you hide?

Mr Gerrit H Schorel-Hlavka

"Having served in the Royal Dutch Armed forces at the then Iron Curtain in (then West) Germany we were trained, and I was a sharp-shooter, to cause minimal injury where possible. Also, to avoid civilians being injured."

I assure you that the Israeli forces try to do the the same. But if Hezbollah fires rockets at Israel from the middle of civilian areas, or next to UNICEF bases, as reported by the UN, what are they to do, other than be as careful as possible? After all Netherlanders are not threatened of being pushed into the sea.

Some Israeli soldiers refuse to serve. They are not popular. anymore than Dutch people who collaborated with the Nazis, but they are able to serve outside the armed forces.

Keith

"The Israel of today can well afford to give refuge to some of the world's persecuted."

It has and does, it has preference for Jews (why not?) but also for Druze Christians Samaritans and Baha'i. It did have to resettle nearly a million Middle Eastern Jewish refugees whose homes were taken from them. Why can't the Arab countries who confiscated Jewish property not assist the Arabs who left the Jewish territories? After all the Germans took in the Sudetenland refugees.

And regarding walls, what about Hadrian's Wall or the Wall of China (though that was for rabbits wasn't it) or the fence between Mexico and the US who are supposed to be free trading partners? Or even the walls around medieval cities, if it saves lives (and it does) why not?

And Keith and Danielle, I appreciate the debate but please no name calling. Although Keith and I argue passionately from opposite sides we have corresponded privately and I can assure you he is OK.