VK3AUU, You seem to be indicating that the Church is made up of imperfect human beings. Human beings that can and are sinful. Holy does not mean pefect, yet the Church IS Holy.
Christ chose imperfect men as his Apostles to carry on the mission of His Church. Was Christ wrong to pick imperfect men ? Look at the story of Saul who persecuted and killed Christians. Yet who writes in the New Testament? Paul, the imperfect man.
The Doctrine remains in tact from the moment Christ gave the keys to Peter. (an imperfect man)
Your argument seems to be that since there are imperfect human beings in the Church, that the Church should be dismissed? Yet if you are a Christian who looks to the Bible as a source of Truth, then you in fact have accepted a Church of imperfect human beings. Imperfect human beings wrote the books in the Bible. Imperfect human beings also canonized the Bible. The Catholic Church.
I'm missing your argument? Because by accepting your argument, I have to also accept that Christ made a mistake in choosing imperfect men to be His apostles. I don't believe He made a mistake.

Is it not also possible that your imperfect men have misrepresented what it was that God has had to say and that your House of God is really built of straw?

CMO3

you talk absolute nonsensical twaddle - religious gobbledegook.

If you want to be taken seriously, first define what you mean by "sin"

last word, don't be so bloody thick mate this isn't grade one for dills. Follow the ladies thinking if your capable and post your counter arguments. If you want to be taken seriously grow up.

VK3AUU, it's possible but not likely, since your attitude would be the follow up position and few human beings are really into slagging religion to raise their personal self-esteem, especially from a position of moral interpitude.

VK3AUU You countered my questions/argument with a question which never addressed the argument I made. Do you look to the Bible for Truth? If so, how can you do that, knowing the Catholic Church canonized the Bible for you, AND that the indivduals who wrote the books in the Bible were imperfect human beings? Christ, Himself chose Peter and gave him the "Keys". He gave the Keys to an imperfect man. HE gave His authority to the Apostles, who were also imperfect men. This in no way sanctions sinful behavior, but it does show us that Christ, through His authority, passed on "authority" to the Apostles who then passed it on through the Apostolic succession, to IMPERFECT and SINFUL men. You didn't answer my question, WAS Christ in error when He did this? Was he mistaken or wrong to do this? Please consider what you are suggesting and either defend it or abandon it all together. If you are a Christian, you need to really look at the very argument you just made. If you reject Christ and the Bible, then simply say so. It would at least, then, make sense.

Last Word, In the Bible it states, the CHURCH is the pillar and foundation of TRUTH. The Bible was canonized to SUPPORT the Church. The Bible itself supports the Church as the pillar and foundation of TRUTH.

The Resurrected Christ was witnessed by many people. I suppose 2,000 years from now, there will be many who will want to portray the Holocaust as never happening. In fact, there are many who wish to do that right now. But denying a TRUTH, does not make it false.

I'm just not sure how one can completely deny what has been handed down through Tradition and the Bible? Manuscripts have been discovered which support the New Testament has better textual support than the texts of Plato, ARistotle and a few others.

Entire manuscripts of the NT are dated to within 300 years of completion. Compare this to secular Classical writers where we've found original documents dated from between 900 and 1300 years.
John Rylands Fragment of the NT which contains John 18:31-33 was dated as early as 115 A. D. Look at The New Testament Documents: Are they Reliable? By Frederick Fyvie Bruce.

I'm just not sure how one can intellectually dismiss the many hard-core facts from historians.

Truly if you support and embrace Truth, you will, instead of dismissing the many historical facts of Scripture, begin to look further into this complex topic.