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The Forum > Article Comments > Traditional Humanities out: Creative Industries in > Comments

Traditional Humanities out: Creative Industries in : Comments

By Gary Ianziti, published 10/5/2007

What sort of university will QUT be without a Bachelor of Arts degree?

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In response to the posted question, Reynard actually provided an excellent basis for my argument, unfortunately he is both too stupid and too ignorant of the issues to realise that he actually has. I promise the above comments will be the last in which I resort to name calling

"Seems perfectly logical to me. The Queensland Institute - oops, sorry - University of Technology should teach Technology!"

The direction QUT has taken suggests that Peter Coaldrake does not want to see QUT in operation as a university of technology, but in fact wants a Queensland based vocational institution. Sadly, this Institute is already in existence, and is known as TAFE Queensland. I know my argument isn't a new one, but I feel it is an important one to add.

In addition to reiterating an old argument, I'd like to add to it by reflecting on the effect the removal of 'traditional' humanities will have on the "Smart State". Queensland is already viewed as an undesirable location for individuals interested in a culturally and intellectually stimulating place to settle. Add to this lack of desirability the reluctance of educated people to remain in Queensland. It may appear that I am jumping to conclusions, without considering how this process would unfold; in reality. However, if you consider that the end result of the current proposed reforms is to destroy the independent research capabilities of Queensland tertiary institutions altogether, then my conclusion becomes probable, and not the slightest bit overblown.
Posted by hayley.t, Thursday, 10 May 2007 6:45:27 PM
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As a good mate recently wrote about this development:

Students will now be "Getting a sociological understanding of Poverty by studying nude photography, and Tap dance your way to an understanding of Social History."

So much for developing and nurturing intellectual rigor!
Posted by Rainier, Thursday, 10 May 2007 7:00:19 PM
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CLEARLY most of the posts so far are from Queenslanders who are unaware of the VERY current debate about making Arts/Sciene subjects compulsory for most university students in the southern States, regardless of whether they are studying medicine, business or engineering. The breadth of knowledge derived from such studies has an enormous impact on the overall intellect of the human being. I, for one, can instantly tell the difference between a young person that questions, and one that doesn’t, and I will always pick the one that DOES every time. Questions are only derived from knowledge of a subject, any subject, but carry across an enormous range of issues. QUT is making the most ENORMOUS mistake for its future, and the decision is EXTREMELY short sighted and completely lacking in ANY intellectual thought, what-so-ever. The three things that money should NEVER be about is health, housing and education, and in this debate QUT has made a most ludicrous decision, encouraging the ‘Stupid State’ and not the ‘Smart State’ that Mr Beattie intended. These Liberal policies are not conducive to education or learning, or the betterment of young Queenslanders. This decision is merely going to breed even MORE ignorance into an already VERY ignorant parochial little society. Call me crazy! Call me stupid! But when I’m 80 and a Gen-Y’er is in charge of the ‘red button’, are they going to say, “So yeah, dude! So, what’s with the red button, dude? Hey, ho, you got it on the red button… like I can’t find anything about red buttons on my iPod, and the dude, yeah, like my mate from the skate park, is like, yeah, stylin’ with his PS5, and like, dude, yeah, there’s no-one to ask ‘cause like we fired them old coots last year. Old grey nomads on their cruisin’ on their pension. Like, far out, dudes!”

Welcome to the new Arts-less new millennium people!
Posted by TMB, Thursday, 10 May 2007 10:02:01 PM
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What wre expressed was the fact that many students who go to university do not go there to be educated, but to learn a trade to gain employment. Anything over and above learning required skills are superfluous. They go to 'Uni' because that is the only way now they can get a job in a chosen industry.

It was not so long ago that many jobs, even in law, were learnt on the job as an apprentice.

The silliest thing that was done was to make a university out of every college.

QUT is reverting back to being a college that teaches specific skills. Maybe it would be more helpful to differentiate again between universities and trade colleges. Should mean a reduction in HECS fees too.
Posted by yvonne, Thursday, 10 May 2007 11:55:53 PM
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The mindset of this discussion is similar to that of the wheatbelt countryside when I was a lad, when scholarships were regarded as not important, and the inspector asked a teacher why a boy, myself, with all near 90 percent passes was not sitting for a scholarship?

The inspector was informed by the teacher that tne boy's father was not interested in scholarships, and as it was the lad's last year in primary school, it was planned he leave school early in September to drive a wagon team carting harvest grain.

The talk thus got around the farm table about an older boy from a next door family who was classed as a bit funny because he had left the farm after a scholarship to study in Perth Modern School.

Is this the sort of future we are facing with youngsters only taught about making money, and nothing much to do with what should be life's chief desires, how to use our thought processes properly, not just using them for learning trades or how to calculate and make money.

Often in wheatbelt districts it happened to be the mothers who encouraged reading good books for the children, as it was with our part German mother who was so much held under the thumb of a bossy cockie old man, as he was called.

So it looks like with the new educational planning,
because politics happens to be an important subject in the humanities, we are going to finish with mostly dunderhead politicians.

Now I know why Mr Howard doesn't seem to care a hoot about history, because he believes in only looking to the future, and not even using life's rear vision mirror, where
one learns to not make the same old historical mistakes, as he and George Dubya have made in Iraq.



was told by of a student with a year full of 90 percent passes, except when it came time for harvest, and the boy, myself was thrilled to give away school in September to help with the harvest
Posted by bushbred, Friday, 11 May 2007 12:02:36 AM
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Yvonne, I think you, and a couple of other posters (possibly Bushbred) have missed the point I was trying to make.

If I hadn’t had the opportunity to do my LLB in conjunction with an arts degree I probably wouldn’t have done it. The BA was in Asian Studies majoring in History and Politics. It gave me a great understanding of both the Indonesian language and allowed me to indulge my passion for culture, travel and history. It complimented the LLB very well, and I find it very useful working between Jakarta and Beijing. Unfortunately though, the system allows lecturers to push the ideological envelope over and over again- this is to no benefit of the students. It doesn’t encourage open debate and independent thinking at all (it encourages the opposite).

Law is a traditionally theoretical based subject. I don’t dispute that. However, how can it be that 1 week of a semester is devoted to John Stuart Mill, 3 weeks of a semester is devoted to corporate governance, and 9 weeks is devoted to subjects such “gay and lesbian reaction to Roe v Wade during the Vietnam War” (that is pulled straight from an old university text I had)! Then after 6 years at university, I’m forced to spend another $7k to attend a practical course IN ADDITION TO the equivalent of my articled clerkship today. It doesn’t make sense and for too long students and parents have been made to feel like ‘barbarians’ every time they criticize the curriculum (from primary to tertiary level).

Finally to bushbred’s point- I’ve never advocated anything less than a Year 12 education for every Australian child. However, it is just as stifling on the individual to make them feel worthless for not wanting to attend university. At my school for instance, very good friends of mine who went on to become builders, panel beaters etc (because they wanted to), were ostracized by the staff presumably because they are ‘barbarians’.
Posted by wre, Friday, 11 May 2007 10:26:32 AM
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