Logic

It may well be the case 'The Sermon' does reflect Jewish values. Even if I have underestimated that particular content it does not alter my point as it still only reflects a fraction of the content of the Hebrew Bible. Our Western Society has been influenced far more by the Epistles of Christ than by the stories of the Hebrew Bible. As an example Genesis is largely out of vogue with a greater emphasis on evolution, the work of science which of course we developed from our Greek traditions.

Claiming a similarity between the Mass and any Jewish ritual is like comparing oranges with soccer balls because both are round. Is the Eucharist celebrated in the Synagogue? For that is the essence and the heart of the Mass. The form of the ritual is of minor importance for the following of Christ's instruction 'do this in memory of me' is the reason for the mass. In no way can there be any similarity in any Jewish ritual.

Of course Christ was Jewish and naturally the cultural norms of the Hebrews would form his view on many values and if one is honest one would probably agree those values are pretty well common with in most civilised and ordered societies. However the West was hugely influenced by Christ and to some degree by his Hebrew traditions. However we've been open to other influences notably the Greek traditions Which is the point I've always made. The West draws from two great traditions, the Herbrews and the Greeks. Which brings me back to emphasis put on this modern day claim of a Judeo-Christian heritage. Such a claim ignores the influence of claim the Greek traditions.

YngNLuvnIt,

Yes I reralise 2/3 of the Christian Bibles are largely from the Hebrew bible. However our Christian communities are refered to by themselves and universally as Christian, not Hebrew, for it is the almost exclusive emphasis on Christ which is relevant.

I have never taken a position to exclude our Hebrew traditions I only question the modern day attempt at over emphasis of the western attachment to the Hebrew traditions and the apparent exclusion of other more important traditions. Notably the Greek traditions.

On all other issues we agree.

keith

Actually you are quite right in emphasising the importance of the Greek tradition. The Jewish tradition has also been greatly influenced by the Greeks and no doubt some has gone the other way so perhaps we should talk about a Hebraic-Greko-Christian tradition. It is difficult perhaps to sort out which part was which in as much as Judaism in the time of Jesus was itself very much affected by Greko-Roman traditions.

I prefer to say Western traditions, it is simpler.

I was not aware of an overemphasis on the Hebraic tradition if so that is clearly wrong. Actually the modern Liberal Jewish and Liberal Christian views are now so close it is hard to tell them apart. That is a large number of modern Western Christians don't take the Eucharist any more seriously than most Jews do the Talmud.

Hopefully Islam will move in the same direction and our troubles will be largely over. We still have to find a decent way of life for the Palestinians which for many need not necessarily be in Israel, as long as they can live in guaranteed peace like the rest of us. I do believe that some sort of democracy is essential for all as it does provide checks against excesses.

Banjo:

“The cracks in that ideology started to show with the fighting between the serbs and the croats and hostilities between other ethnic groups. They are not tolerant! Then we have the Leb muslims who show no respect or tolerance to anyone but their own group. Now Leb gangs are fighting Asain school kids. Thats tolerance!”

Come on Banjo! If EVERYONE in this country were ‘white’ Australians there would still be gangs and they would still find reasons to fight each other. You only have to look at the war between this country’s ‘white’ bikie gangs to see that, and ‘white’ soccer hooligans in England who bash each other’s skulls because of a perceived ‘rivalry’ between teams. Yes race becomes an inflammatory issue, as does religion. But they’re biproducts of a bigger issue that we as a human race seem to have. That is a lack of tolerance and a constant need to define an enemy.

Further insulating ourselves by demanding those who wish to live in our country adopt some pre-defined notion of its culture does nothing to address this problem. The entire concept is ridiculous, because there IS no concrete set of value standards by which we all live. It is an individual and personal thing, and an ever-changing thing.

The problem isn’t cultural. It’s the fact that we as a human race keep defining separations amongst ourselves. Be they race, nation, religion or whatever. Until we address that by learning to accept and embrace other cultures as part of a wider world, there will always be fighting, hatred, and intolerance.

You’ve written off multiculturalism after what, 30 years? Undoing thousands of years of ingrained suspicions and separations amongst the human race will not happen in 30 years. It’s a slow process, but a necessary one in my opinion.

BOAZ_David,
It seems to me you have experienced and are protesting against bad manners and non-diversity in the workplace, two things that are not unique or endemic to any one culture or racial group. I'd suggest you raise your complaint to the management of the service station or a third party which deals in such matters.

Perhaps your petrol station employs Indians because they have a good work ethic and are willing to work the long and late hours that would be required for a job at a servo? Or perhaps it is a case of giving jobs to family members and friends, a practice that does not necessarily break down to racism but is common throughout our society and even within the "predominant" culture.

As for language, do you also object to the language of youth, which can become so colloquialised as to be unintelligible to the unlearned ear?

I have to support BOAZ

Just last month I was complaining to my wife that our local petrol station only employed Indians. This is located just off the SE in Toorak. For the last year I have seen nothing but Indians work there. A few weeks ago there was a sign "under new maangement" and now its back in Aussie hands.

The number of times I've seen immigrants only employing immigrants from there own country is too many to count. Most immigrants are far more racist than your average Australian. I used to believe in non racist policies, but for many years I've seen immigrants get away with being as racist as they want to.

Indians in my opinion are some of the most racist. I was once working in a hospital with an Indian doctor seeing poor patients, and his opinions were disgusting. He said that you can't turn a donkey into a racehorse whilst referring to some poor Australians.

Once I worked at a restaurant owned by Yugoslavians, I was doing work experience, and I was criticized because out of a staff of around 30 I was the only non Yugoslavian. The owner later killed his wife.

It seems to me there are continually policies designed to benefit small migrant groups at the expense of the majority of Australians. This include preferential entry to Uni courses for people with English as a second language, additional time for sitting exams etc, etc the list goes on. These are all examples of discrimination against white Australians.

The other days I sat a final exam in Medicine, after 3hours I had to put down my pen, whereas more than half the class who have english as a second language stay behind with extra time to do the same exam.
Even students with ESL get extra marks to get into Medicine courses at Uni ( which is never mentioned in Unversity entry guides).

Basically I'm sick of being discriminated against in my own country.