hey Stabinthedark.. that was no random 'stab' there mate... your post was 'SMACK ON' ..
Whenever "Labor" speaks about immigration, tolerance, multiculturalism they really mean VOTES.

TOLERANCE IS A DIRTY WORD... when it is not clothed in the neccessary proviso's such as 'we cannot tolerate intolerance' and we must apply this strict criteria to all creeds seeking to enter Australia.

If you consider that our Parliament opens up with the "Lords Prayer" and the "Lord" in question is none other than Jesus-The Messiah/Christ who is recognized as 'Son of God' by Christendom world wide, then..that the Quran actually and specifically CURSES Christians and Jews by name for this very belief,(Quran Chapter 9:30) and calls on Allah to DESTROY us, one could hardly suggest that such a creed is in any way compatable with Australian values or culture.

So, this is doctrinal aggravated INtolerance. i.e. it is not just a state of mind, it is a desire for the actual physical destruction of those holding Christian and Jewish beliefs.

The sooner this is realized the better.

HUMAN RIGHTS ? a primary human right must be to have freedom of choice of religion, EXCEPT when that religion denies such a choice to others by political structures and aggressive policing. (like Saudi Arabia)

Stabinthedark asks 'what the hell is Australian values?'.

Well according to Geoff Gallop, Australian values are the "values associated with democracy (equality and human rights) and the Australian tradition of a fair go".

According to the Macquarie dictionary a value is: the ideals, customs, institutions in which the people of a social group believe.

I would argue that multiculturalism is not an Australian value because it goes against the Australian value of equality. Certain Islamic peoples may not subscribe to the Australian value of equality for all women for example. The multiculturalist creed would demand that we 'tolerate' such inequality exclusively for those who adhere to the islamic faith. That, my friend, is not in tune with Australian values.

"I would argue that multiculturalism is not an Australian value because it goes against the Australian value of equality. Certain Islamic peoples may not subscribe to the Australian value of equality for all women for example."

Many 'white' peoples, born in Australia, a lot of them second and third and fourth generation Australians, don't subscribe to your 'Australian' value of equality for all women, either.

In fact a great deal don't in my experience, but maybe I've just been unfortunate enough to mix in less than desirable circles.

And yet no one seems to be singling them out? In fact, many of them would be considered the archetypal beer swilling, footy watching, pie eating, 'she'll be right' Australians. More than just simply 'tolerated', they're paraded as something to aspire to.

The idea that somehow we should all share a set of 'common' values that define us as Australians is a joke. We have laws that govern against the discrimination of women. Australians of a white European background or newly immigrated Muslims, everyone adheres to those laws, or you face the penalties. Outside of those laws you're more than free to value what you like, in whatever way you like.

I'd be more than interested to see a list of these Australian 'values' and how it came about, and who defined the terms. Sounds to me like a bunch of nationalistic crap that gets wheeled out everytime we need to define an 'us' and a 'them'.

I was going to enter this debate but so many people have the fundamentals so wrong I won't bother.

You should all go read the relevant pieces of legislation in regards to Multiculturalism and the statements on the topic from Immigration and Citizenship. They clearly state the policy. You'd all see how silly you are all carrying on.

Geoff, you included mate.

I was taken aback by one of your opening remarks.

'The solution advocated is either the strong assertion of secularism and the values associated with democracy and human rights, or the renewal of national identity, which in Australia's case is associated with a fair go, mateship and the Judeo-Christian tradition'

Our national identity owes far more the the Greek Traditions of the Western Liberal Democracies than it does to the mostly now rejected Hebrew traditions. It is remarkable today's scholars link the Jewish traditions to Christian traditions. The Christian traditions are rooted in the 'Sermon on the Mount' and Christ and the only link I find to the Hebrew bible in that sermon is the belief in the Ten Commandments.

Christian beliefs mostly reject the Hebrew traditions and even you'd have to agree the Hebrews showed they rejected christianity ... in a most empathic way.

Judeo-Christian traditions? The link is indeed very tenuous, just like a Labor admission to an historic commitment to the White Australia Policy, almost non - existent.

Keith, but surely you recognise the Hebrew Scriptures comprise 2/3s of the Christian Bible?

Stabin The Dark,
For our values, look back a couple of posts to that of YngNLuvnit.
He has listed some cocisely. Note, they don't have to be uniquely Aussie. I could not find anything to disagree with his post.

Australians know all about tolerance. We have been tolerant since the 70s, when MC was introduced. We tolerated our culture being pushed aside for a flawed ideal that rated original cultures ahead of national loyalty. An ideology, pushed by social engineers, that fostered seperate developement to a federation of ethnic cultures, not one cohesive community.

The cracks in that ideology started to show with the fighting between the serbs and the croats and hostilities between other ethnic groups. They are not tolerant! Then we have the Leb muslims who show no respect or tolerance to anyone but their own group. Now Leb gangs are fighting Asain school kids. Thats tolerance!

All this time Australians were being told the WE must br tolerant and thats the joke.

MC failed. It had to as it required not only tolerance but respect and understanding between all ethnic groups, and this was never going to happen dispite the millions of dollars of taxpayers money being poured into the "industry" of MC, for all its existance.

At last the Government and Opporsition have both recognized the failure and are abandonong it. Not before time.

For my money, immigrants can only be expected to leave behind any hatreds their culture carries, obey and respect our laws and social standards. Other than this they can live their lives how they wish.