Tasmanian Tiger please tell us about "the forensic evidence for God, which is everywhere". I think you'll find it is not so much described as "idiotic" as non-existant. And of course "the Bible calls those fools who in their hearts claim that there is no God" - because instuments of propaganda invariably belittle their detractors.

I had the full christian up-bringing - Sunday school, weekly church, church school, and it all left me totally unmoved by the notion of god, although I love the old services, hymns and the language of the King James bible. On the odd occasion I find myself in church I find the modern language and the happy-clappies quite repulsive, but the pleasure in the old services was derived from the beauty of the language, the sense of occasion and the time to be quiet in a lovely setting. As for god - well for me god is a real as any other character from great fiction, and a really nasty piece of work. Who could like a character who had the power to do anything, make people believe anything, and chose to kill his own child as the best way to make a point? Sick.

Candice sounds like the best advert going aroung for the Hillsong type churches. She writes of her church upbringing "and it all left me totally unmoved by the notion of god" and then goes on to say 'Although I love the old services, hymns and the language of the King James bible'
It seems that a lot of people (not all) in churches that practice liturgy have a great deal of followers that choose not to believe or follow the teachings of Christ.

If you are totally unmoved by the notion of God' it is obvious that you do not know Him. I am sure though like every other person on the planet that if you don't know Him you would of replaced Him with something else.

Waterboy,
I have been following your posts with some satisfaction that someone understands what I am on about. However your last exposes an unexpected atheism. The church is not based on any of our ideas for a better world. It and its liturgy is based on the truth of God. Otherwise we are left with Pericles’ psychological payoff that hangs in mid air. Liturgy is not something that supports our dream of a better world but points to a reality hidden below the surface of the world. That is why it must be handled with care, it is enacted theology as you yourself have pointed out.

Peter Sellick

You completely miss the point, Runner - there was nothing spititual at church to move me despite the beauty of the language, which can still send a tingle up my spine. The thought of people jumping up and down like human pogo-sticks, as at Hillsong, just strikes me as incredibly funny, and their music does absolutely nothing for me. The thing is, all the religious exposure of my youth totally failed to provide me with any sense or evidence of a god or any inclination to believe in an entity that has never seemed more than a human construct. And if you look at god in the bible, he is a really unpleasant character - playing favourites, killing people, demanding his followers kill people, dumping on his chosen people, its all there. I appreciate that some people can't get through the day without the support of this figment of their imagination, but I'm not one of them.

I'd still like to see Tasmanian Tigers 'forensic evidence' of the existence of god - who knows, I may be convinced. I'm quite open to rational argument, its just the irrational stuff that I don't get.

" [1] Christian worship is serious holy play that reveals the world as it really is rather than what it thinks it is. [2] It is as shocking as the scandal of the Gospel and a danger to our constructions of the world. [3] We should attend Church in fear and trembling not knowing where we will be led each Sunday. " - Sells

Peter,

[1., above] We agree on what I have been saying for six months worship is indewlling [Polanyi] in crede, not exchanging information. The latter does not require a priesthood and brick and mortar building. Books and CDs will suffice.

[2.] Ditto for the Trinity of Serapis. That Mystery cult was backed but substianial scriptural works [Wells]. Its godheadhead is similar to Christian godhead. Stucturally {not the person], the Litergy of the Church of Serapis might have more in common with the Anglicans, than between the RCC and the Anglicans.

[3.] Fear and trembling in the absence of secular danger, the neuroscientists put down to the Neocortex being suppressed by the Limbic [survival] survival system. moreover, indulging in worship is likely to be reinforcing [Skinner] causing neurons to tree branches [Grenfield].

In between the cracks of 1, 2, 3, is the consistant interaction between Egypt and Roman. Theocrasic transference about the "afterlife" into the Late-Greco and Latin world of 300 circa BCE too 200 CE occurred. IT REALLY DID. In the first century CE, there were chariot loads itinerate Messiahs and Holy-Sayers making a living during the SAME period. The Jews seem to have revolted against the history of being under the Greek and Eyptian thumb, midst the power of the near apex of Roman power under Augustus

Thanks for your clarification Candice

'And if you look at god in the bible, he is a really unpleasant character - playing favourites, killing people, demanding his followers kill people, dumping on his chosen people, its all there.'

You obviously perceive a different 'god of the bible' to the followers of Jesus. History shows that those who did their best to live consistently with His teachings were the ones that violence was inflicted upon.

Its funny that out of the thousands of Christians I have met none of them have been into killing people. I have meant a number of non believers that are comfortable with murdereing their unborn.