Oliver

You write'Ever heard of Adolf Hitler? Ever heard of Slavery, Ever heard of Hiroshima? Ever heard of the Inquisitions? Ever heard of the Crusades? Every heard of the Klu Klux Klan?

AND OF CHRISTIAN GOD;

Ever heard of Smitting, plagues, floods and droughts

You either show a great ignorance to Jesus and His teachings or for some reason along with the above mentioned names you deliberately mis represent Him.

Runner,

Thanks for your reply.

Primarily, I was referring to the Christian Church and the Cannanite God(s) of the Old Testament. Christians and the Hebrew henotheist diety act/acted nothing like Jesus [the odd temper trip aside] and his teachings [which incidently are known to societies too].

I'm currently writing from Rome and have seen the huge pilgrimage of devotees at the Vatican. It's a lot like Mecca must be during the Muslim holy festivals but with an abundance of tacky souvenirs and commercial exploitation.

It's pretty much business as usual here today (Monday)and Good Friday was not a Public Holiday.

I can't get over the fact that this is the time of year we commemorate the resurrection of the Saviour of a large part of the world's population by the eager over-consumption of little chocolate eggs, distributed by a magical invisible rabbit.

Says a lot really.

Runner,

1. As previously mentioned, I was referring mainly to the actions of Christians. Any tally of tens of millions of deaths of the twentieth century would have Christians matching the Maoists, Stalinists or flue epidemics. The separation you see between Christians and killing is not there.

2. If we discount the miracles... There have been some highly self-actualised individuals in history, many teachers, many humanists and many martyrs. Considering Jesus' secular existence, why do you see him not merely special, but, special to the point of being extraodinary?

Even the establishment of a denominational church [from the Jesus cults] had more to do with Paul [inclusion of gentiles and Hellenisation], Hadrian [exiling Jew from the Holy Lands], and Constantine [Nicaea]. [Marketing has given us Paris Hilton and big oil, George W.]

If one could video a day in the Life of Jesus, especially, before his alleged arrest; what would be so special?

Prophets and massiahs were thick on the ground in the first century Middle East[for religo-political reasons].

3. The drive to believe is strong amongst religionists [I let the self-reference stand.] : Just look at the RCC first-tracking JP II's sainthood. Before his body was cold, one could have forecast the his miraculous intercession with God. Rot.

Relatedly, on the the Liturgy of Extreme Unction. Why does a dead Pope require nine absolutions, when one is okay for normal folk? The ceremony of the death of Kings, Presidents or Popes is most temporal, indeed. Even in liturgy, in life, and, in death, there are church-consented rank distinctions, I suspect [the]Jesus [characterisation] [if he ever existed] would not approve.

Sells,

Come on Sells, my friend, you really don't believe the intercession of a dead Pope [Archbishop, in your case?] can occasion the remission of a disease.[Not saying some to bio-neurological agent, opposite to pointing the bone was not at work.]

Woobles,

Thanks for the funny post it has tickled my funny bone and given me a good laugh.

Truth really is stranger than fiction isnt it.

Sells,
That was a very interesting piece to read, especially for someone old enough to understand and share your sentiments. I am just wondering, whether you counted on the number of naive, or irrelevant (or both) comments by "liturgical outsiders". It might be interesting to hear comments on the music of, say, Missa solemnis, written by a musical connoisseur, bur hardly if written by a musically illiterate or even deaf person. Similarly, comments on the religious and/or psychological value of traditional liturgy vs. "happy-clappy" liturgy are interesting when written by somebody who can experience it at least on the psychological level but not if written by people "liturgically illiterate". I would not comment on the aesthetic or grammatical merits of this or that essay written in Turkish since I do not understand that language.