(from previous comment)Its not such a long time since Western culture demanded women cover much of their bodies when in public – with long skirts, with stockings, with hats, with gloves, with headscarves, with confinement (while pregnant). The association of shame with women’s nudity (or pregnancy) remains a strong part of Western culture. The association of sex and women’s nudity is still virtually unchallenged and relates to the notion of shame. I aspire for my baby daughter to grow up to live in a world where she can be comfortably naked in public, that this is not thought of as sexual but rather as simply comfortable and that nobody regard her nudity as “immodest”. I likewise aspire to live in a world where my daughter may be comfortable with her sexuality and that she never be considered “immodest” for the enjoyment of her sexuality. I aspire to live in a world in which men may enjoy their nudity publicly also. Where, if they wish to swim naked in the ocean they won’t be arrested for public indecency. Where, women with prominent nipples or high cleavages are not instantly labeled “immodest” if they fail to wear clothes that disguise these features of their bodies. I also aspire to live in a world where women or men who wish to clothe themselves in any attire that is different from the cultural norm – be it a headscarf, a loincloth or a kilt – may do so with the full extent of public support that greets my breastfeeding today. But shame on you Lynda for presenting this as a simple journey - you’re a scholar not a school kid. Shame on you for presenting the notion of “modesty” uncontested.

Excellent post Shell, the best in this thread so far. There is a severe lack of perspective on this issue. The headscarf to me highlights a much wider issue on how people in our culture are judged by their appearance and attire.

One of my housemates is a punk of sorts. Bulky build, crazy hair, spikes on the jacket etc. He's actually an incredibly friendly and non-violent person, but because of preconceptions towards this style, many find him intimidating. It is intense the reactions he elicits out in public. Security guards follow him around shops. Drunk males want to fight him because they think his very image is a challenge to them.

It's incredible, there is literally nothing different about him to anyone else aside from: a) the music he listens to, and b) the clothes he wears. Yet our perception of how people should present themselves is so narrow that the slightest variation (say, a piercing and a melvins t-shirt would do it) can incite immediate distrust, fear and anger.

Another example: if a man feels like he wants to wear a skirt - in itself no great variation from the norm (the fabric is just stitched differently, yeah?), he better be prepared for all kinds of abuse.

The headscarf is only a hot button topic because Muslim hating is in vogue at the moment. But there is in fact no practical difference between it and the examples I've given.

Unfortunately, as a society we cannot say we are free from prejudice until the day comes that a person can wear whatever they want (or not wear, thankyou Shell) without any assumptions being made about them.

It's just bits of fabric arranged in different ways. And put on different places.

But keep the collar of your t-shirt down guys...that just looks stupid.

Muslim hating is not just something in vogue. It is of course partly a reaction against anything different and Howard has made much political capital by encouraging it.

But a very small group of extremists Hilali et al plus the suicide bombers have fed that fear of strangers in a way that has now become a major problem. So many people have characterized all Muslims by the regrettable actions of a few. Unfortunately suspicion divides and the dynamics make it worse and worse. Our political leaders have worked to increase the divide for their political ends instead of providing a needed circuit breaker.

The head scarf, no problem to me now becomes an issue. I recall a woman wearing one at Southern Cross station asking me for directions. My polite and friendly response produced an expression of gratitude in her. I am sure her body language indicated relief that I treated her as a human being, until then she was tentative. If only all of us would do just that.

Am I hoping for too much?

This is what I dislike about the scarf:

- it is visual reinforcement of the March of Islam. Along with mosques, Muslim beards, bedsheet couture, and foreign languages, headscarfs cause an "us and them" mentality.

Fred Nile reckons the non-Muslim birth-rate is 1.7 and the Muslim birth-rate is 6.8. It is no wonder people in parts of south-west Sydney are feeling like strangers in their own towns.

- all foreign appearance hits the subconscious with microshocks. Typically the young people readily cross the cultural barriers. The adults rarely do. And when you get to be a creaky old bugger, your tolerance for such things goes out the window. In a day and age where "accessibility for all" is a benchmark for a fair society, the public spaces are being polluted by foreign appearance (with respect to the beauty of each within its own kind). It a nutshell, the old folk stay at home - the turtle effect. Their access to public space is denied.

- when a community visually differentiates themselves, and their birth-rates explode, they expand in a wave that bulldozes existing communities in their path. No-one likes being a minority. People are forced to move, their communities and history are bulldozed.

Banning the scarf and other visual differences would relegate Islam to the status of other religions i.e. an invisible personal faith. Imagine if Muslims looked like Aussies, all spoke English, and went to a place of worship that was architecturally compatible with the surrounds. There would be less chance that the militant side of Islam would take hold. We would be one.

Integration is, first and foremost, visual. It is an essential part of reforming Islam that will need to take place unless we want to roll over and play dead to the Islamic conquerors.

In my part of Western Sydney, there seems to be more hijabs every day. And even full-face veils are appearing. When the couture goes faceless, it is the death of a town. You laugh at first, then you get sad, and then you get angry.

To Shell,

I appreciate your Eden like vision for unashamedly throwing off our scarves, bras, pants, and all else, not worrying about such useless and sentimental hindrances as clothing, and to be fully free to express our sexuality in public. However, I suspect that it will not be so easy to get back to Eden.

All societies have standards of modesty. As I said above, there are certain things that are part and parcel of being human. Clothing is one. Norms differ around the world but no culture is free of them. Even in such places as the New Guinea highlands, where little was worn, people had definite standards as to how and when you show various parts of your body.

To Sahr,

When you reference the Bible accusing God of encouraging rape, do you count on people not actually looking up the reference you cite? The book of Deuteronomy says no such thing.

To Spendocrat,

Does your friend enjoy having drunks pick fights with him in bars? If not, why doesn’t he just change his jacket? Are the spikes on his jacket so precious to him?

'This is what I dislike about the scarf:..'

Wow, do you really think this is about what you like and don't like? I don't like white shoes or pre-faded jeans, can we ban them too?

Mick V: my friend wears what he wants. I wear what I want. We aren't going to change the attire we like and feel comfortable in because brainless morons lack the neurons to comprehend that some people don't like to appear the same as everyone else. Thats their problem, not ours.

So in answer to your question, yes, the spiky jacket becomes very important. An expression of freedom in a society where most have forgotten what that means.