I was brought up to believe that true religion is demonstrated in your deeds and works of charity rather than your dress. Your piety should be seen in your strength of your character, not the strength of your headscarf, or other outward appearance.

If Muslim women want to wear a scarf for modesty’s sake, then okay. But even modesty goes beyond a piece of cloth on your head, but how you conduct yourself in society. If Muslim women who choose not to wear a scarf a frowned upon by their fellow Muslims, then it shows their religion has a bit of growing up to do.

And to Snake and others, who seem threatened by any form of religion whatsoever – get a life! The great majority of people down through the ages have shown religious expression. It is part of how we are programmed. It is part of being human. Atheists are the exception. If you can’t handle this, then grow a backbone. You probably just need to get out a bit more.

grn, actually i think the 'gormless ockers' i referred to amount i hope to less than a quarter of the population, 99% was my wild assed guess for the proportion of aussies who have less learning than the multilingual musical muslim scientists i was recalling. The small proportion of the truely dangerously ignorant aussies is little comfort however, given their aggressive (because self serving) adherence to RightThink.

I personally have no problem with a head scarf, there is in any case no guarantee that the wearer is necessarily a Muslim. Even if they are so what? If it offends anyone I say get a life.

Face covering is a different matter. That reminds me a bit of a gangster or robber, and makes me uncomfortable particularly being part of a society where facial expression is an important part of our culture. But there are very few of these. I also get offended my by those occasional clerics of all faiths who decry the way most of us dress.

But let people do what they will and don't read into it something that is not there. The second generation will share values with the rest so stop fussing about nothing.

WOW!

What a wonderfully heated debate.

Well guys, the thing I've noticed most about these posts is the HUGE generalisations.

"They do this". "They do that". Whose they? Muslims? Hmmm.

imagine a group of people coming together to talk about, say, Christians. "Christians hate muslims and homosexuals" well there's certainly a lot of evidence to that. "Christianity deems women lesser than men" well, most christian churches dont let women be priests, don't allow abortions... In fact in Deuteronomy 20:10-14, God actually tells his followers to go and rape women. hmm..

People could easily use this evidence to generalise. but they'd be wrong, right? Or are all 2,039 million Christians the same?

Are all 1,226 million muslims the same?

How many of you, who seem to know so much about Islam, actually know a single Muslim? Have you ever even spoken to a Muslim? Ever had a muslim friend? oh they're probably to seperatist to talk to right? Have you even tried?

And for those who are not religious, well, neither am I. I think religion breeds ignorance and intolerance. But you guys seem to be showing far more intollerance than any religo-nut i've ever spoken to.

Have any of you read about the Islam womens-rights movement? It's been going on for a long, long time, in all those dirty muslim countries none of you seem to know the names of. But hey, who needs facts when we have racial hatred?

Linda actually went out and took the time to visit Mosques and talk to Muslim women and even walk a while in their shoes. And for this you call her a demon-lady. And then you say Muslims are seperatists. Were you being ironic?

I believe the Hijab is a tool of oppression (like so many things that come from religions). That's what I think and I'm open to suggestions. But the very moment I start telling someone what they can and cannot wear and demonising people who don't do as I do, well then I've kind of lost the plot haven't I?

Next we'll be burning books...

Sahr,

HUGE generalisations?

I think no one here generalised more than you just did.

1. Please tell who had called Lynda a "demon-lady"?

2. Are you kidding to suggest people here may not even know a single Muslim? How about me who actually had a Muslim colleague performing daily prayers beside my office desk for a couple of years?

3. Had anyone supposed that "1,226 million Muslims" are the same?

4. Notwithstanding your intepretation of Deuteronomy 20:10-14, how about I say no Christian believes God tells his followers to go and rape women today? Can you find out whether they did raped women in accordance to God's 'intructions' in Deuteronomy days?

Gee, you are right too I have not read about the Islam womens-rights movement that you mentioned. Please advise in specific terms how that will reform Islamic culture? If women are able to reform a male-centric religion then it is useful to know.

Nevertheless, may I suggest you and Lynda learn the true nature of Islam by visiting:-

http://www.faithfreedom.org

(That "Understanding Islam" on Lynda's ActNow website is just academic stuff and practically quite useless).

Perhaps you will realise when people tell the truth about Islam, it is not mere generalisation per se.

In 1965, when my mother was a teenager, she was refused entry to one of the George Street (Sydney) cinemas because she was wearing a tailored (long) pant suit. The cinema considered pants to be immodest attire for a woman. Later, when my mother was heavily pregnant and traveling on a bus she was verbally criticized for drawing attention to herself by wearing red ribbed tights (in winter). She was at that time quite poor, red was all she had. On another occasion she was criticized for traveling on a public bus while visibly pregnant. The norm at the time was for pregnant women to be hidden from public view. It was immodest for a pregnant women to be in public. When I was in high school in the 1980s I was not allowed to wear pants to school and once had my legs felt up by a teacher and was punished for not wearing pantyhose with my summer school uniform (bear legs were “immodest” – but so were pants). Later that decade I was warned against wearing pants to a job interview – the norm for women was to wear skirts. As a new mother in the early 80s, my aunt fought for the right to breastfeed her daughters in public – at that time she and other new (vulnerable) mothers were vilified for doing so. As a new mother now, for the last eight months I have breastfed my daughter in public. I have never been criticized, I have always felt comfortable and supported. I don’t do it because I wish to get my breasts out in public. Years of cultural oppression mean that I am painfully embarrassed every time I do and I move with carefully planned speed to try to avoid exposing my nipples. (see next post)