yvonne, very well put.

R0bert

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Not, "Aqvarivs resents women not dying on the battle field."

I commend anyone who voices their opinion, however I feel Women in western society are riding on the back of persecution of women in third world countries and middle eastern countries. Women frequently do suffer discrimination in Australia, more often than not, it's positive discrimination.

A public transport organization in Tasmania, gained an exemption from the equal rights commission for a period to only employ Women, apparently there was a gender imbalance. How about Female dominated careers such as Nurses, Receptionist, Secretaries, no I don't see a push to employ more men.

Advertisements on television tell us that violence against Women is not OK, so a man or women can hit a male and thats OK? what are they implying.

Women and Men don't compete on the sporting field against each other because a male is seen as stronger, yet in employment areas where physical strength can result in more productivity women are paid the same, I'm not advocating a vast remuneration difference, however if a bloke can lift 5 bricks and a women only 4, at the end of the day the man has achieve slightly more, so why not pay him, slightly more?

Come on, I know the squeaky wheel gets oiled, but Women in Western society,have drums of oil now,, you even have a longer life expectancy than us poor blokes. Pick a new topic to lobby, because Women are better than Men when it comes to speaking up for themselves

Rational comment, you have lots of valid points.

Re the violence ads, I completely agree with you. I personally know a man who was victim of 'domestic violence'. It was argued that a man can't be, because he can't be 'in fear of his life'. Being run over by a car or having your child threatened on numerous occasions, having personal property broken/removed and rung at work every half hour for days on end apparently doesn't count.

It should be 'Violence - Australia says No'

Women are as capable of cruelty and aggression as men are.It is a romantic notion that women are 'softer'. It is a Madonna complex that we have. It does a disservice to women and men who do not fit a particular romanticized ideal of femininity and masculinity.

Men are going into the nursing profession, but are not as keen, because as with most female dominated professions the pay is less then what would be earned for a commensurate education in a male dominated profession (eg policing). This is slowly changing.

yvonne,

I knew a man whose wife poured petrol onto him and set him alight.

There is a play based on a true story about a woman who poisoned a number of men. "The trial of ...."

It seems that society has always had difficulty in dealing with female violence.

Just as society seems to struggle with female sexuality or expressions thereof. In fact some of the feminist players have even gone so far as to promote lesbianism and that heterosexuality was about oppression.

I think it might have been Dowrkin who promoted the idea that women were not able to give consent for heterosexual relationships, because they had been subjected to 'brainwashing and conditioning'.

So on one hand it is OK for women to entertain and pleasure each other, and on the other it is oppressive if women and men receive and give pleasure.

Yvonne

Well stated. I’m sure we share a lot of common ground here! The main point of difference between us, and I don’t want to harp on it to much but I do think it’s the critical stumbling block, is the fundamental philosophy we both hold regarding individual choice and responsibility. (I also think it might be part of the reason I seem to be at odds with some of the other posters here too!)

We both agree that it is important for women to have freedom of choice. If I read you correctly, however, you hold to the view that women should be able to exercise that choice in whatever way they see fit, regardless of its effect on others. You argue that if a woman makes a mistake, so what, she can learn from it and grow as a person, just as a man has always been free to do.

To a point, yes. But I would argue that our choices always affect others and that it is important for all of us, men and women, to be conscious of this. To me, when a woman chooses to dress in an outrageously provocative manner, for example, it is much more than her harmlessly exercising her freedom of choice. To me, her action compromises the rights of all women who want to distance themselves from the bimbo image and have their views taken seriously, which I'm sure is the vast majority of us.

I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself here, but I think it's important to make the point that we don't live in a vacuum and that our choices always have a ripple on effect. To me, when feminism, or any other movement for that matter, is framed purely in the language of personal choice, it’s transformative possibilities for society as a whole are overlooked. You mentioned age. I was born in '54 so I am old enough to remember the argument, strongly advanced in the seventies, that the feminist movement would help to bring about positive social change. Perhaps that's my problem!