Instead of having a few hundred posts from women, complaining or otherwise, we have had many men whinging about how women have lucked out and how easy it is for them.

Probably because most women are too busy.

What's the issue with you blokes? Worried we might find out we don't really need you? We’ll still love you, you know, we won’t discard you on the scrap heap when you get old.

There are men like Trade215 who seems to know what the human animal needs. The female one apparently needs constraints on account of not being able to handle freedom. Puleeze!
And: "Another one l like a lot, is 'clean up your own mess, dont expect someone else to pick up after you.'" Can’t you just hear the collective roar of laughter from every mother and wife in the land?

Aqvarivs resents women not dying on the battle field. Don’t know which century he lives in, but there are women dying on the battle field. It is men who feel uncomfortable about female soldiers. Not women. Just because it’s men who start wars doesn’t mean there aren’t any women who want to participate.

Fellows, anything you can do women can do too. (I’ll only say ‘better’ to my sisters, don’t want to crush your self-esteem even more). Denigrating women isn’t going to change that. We're just the other side of the human coin. No better, no worse, just as valuable. Can't have a coin with only one side!

"It is men who feel uncomfortable about female soldiers. Not women."

Wrong.

If ever a statement supports Melinda's argument that we haven't come far it's this one.

The fact that women are lining up alongside men and learning how to kill and maim with the best of them is hardly an advancement. If we could use our hard won equality to persuade men from the battlefield to the negotiating table we would at last be making real progress.

The fact is that there are women who want to join the armed forces and do. You imply that because women now can make that personal choice women have not advanced. What? Some of us have not been taught properly on making acceptable ‘female’ choices? I thought we were getting away from needing to be told what right female choices are. I’m spitting chips here Bronwyn.

It is presumptuous to make a judgment on anyone’s choice without knowing, not assuming, why and in what context a choice was made. That’s why I found Reist’s argument unconvincing.

I get frustrated with the idea that there is a certain female behavioural code that must be adhered to otherwise a woman is accused of ‘behaving like a man’ (or lining up beside them to learn how to), ‘playing up to a man’, ‘seeking approval of a man’. It is patronising.

To me the main thrust of the article was about feminism and the fact that we haven’t come a long way yet. I think that feminism is about equality of the sexes. It is about empowerment to make choices for ourselves. In this regard we’ve made great progress in a relatively short time. Feminism is about acknowledging our rights as human beings.

The theory that there are male values and female values I find highly debatable. We assign them by stereotyping. It depends on the culture of the society in question. So to imply that women have some special ability over and above men to better society is chauvinistic. To imply that ‘successful’ feminism can is arrogant. Hey, that sounds like a pre baby boomer male!

We have important women specific issues that need to be addressed, such as lower average earnings, the difficulty women have climbing the ladder in their careers. Combining motherhood with work/career and that more women live in poverty than men. These are important women's issues not just issues based on making incorrect choices. Any of these issues would have fitted the title of the article better.

yvonne

"It is about empowerment to make choices for ourselves."

I agree this is important. I just happen to believe that feminism can offer more than this that's all.

If the choices we are now empowered to make for ourselves as women are bad choices for society as a whole, I don't see that as progress. This is where I was coming from with the example of female soldiers. I see it as a bad choice for society that women choose to take up arms when they could instead be using their empowerment to help solve conflict in much more creative and far less damaging ways. I think the choices we make as women should always be ones that advance society as a whole.

I'm sorry if this comes across as presumptuous, arrogant, patronizing, or chauvinistic. That certainly wasn't my intention.

yvonne, I posted, "I can not think of anything as a man that I can do that women as a sex are exempt from. Oh wait. Dying or being mutilated on the battlefield. Yes, I forgot there for a moment my superior station in life."

Your reply, "Aqvarivs resents women not dying on the battle field."

How did you ever come to such a negative start point? It seems almost contradictory to your last post. For the record I enjoyed your last post. And agree. I would have liked it even more if it had included personal responsibility for ones thinking and actions. I believe that was the main thrust of trade215 posting.

Most disappointing though is the underline "hate men" that slips out when ever you hit your stride.
"Fellows, anything you can do women can do too. (I’ll only say ‘better’ to my sisters, don’t want to crush your self-esteem even more). Denigrating women isn’t going to change that. We're just the other side of the human coin. No better, no worse, just as valuable. Can't have a coin with only one side!"

Isn't that what you did just there, denigrate all men?

Aqvarivs I most definitely do not hate men. That comment you quoted was tongue in cheek. My father was my most inspiring person, I learned much from him. I have two wonderful young men as sons, besides a daughter. And am married to a great guy.

What I'm trying to get across is that choices made by a person ,whether man or woman, are that person's personal responsibility. That's the whole idea of empowerment. You get to bask in the glory of good choices and get the chance of acknowledging and fixing up yourself a poor choice. Young children are guided and assisted, not autonomous adults.

Whether choices are right or wrong is a whole different debate. It should not make one iota of difference whether this choice was made by a male or female.

Bronwyn, empowerment to make choices is the single most important thing that happened for women. I don’t know how old you are, but it was not so long ago (in my young adult days) that an adult woman could not.

And just like men have been doing for centuries, women now also get to make choices, good, but also bad choices. Women now can make mistakes and live to tell the tale. That’s what women’s liberation did.

Reist argued that because women can now behave sexually in a self-defeating way it is not progress. But in a weird way it actually is. 40 years ago not one of these girls would have been able to redeem, if you will, herself and change her life. Now she can, just like boys always could. The consequences for a woman when she made a ‘mistake’ were devoid of pity, let alone empathy.

Feminists’ contribution to humankind in general is to show that women have an equal voice in debating and finding solutions for a better human society. Not better or less, equal.

This is in no way to condone the issues Reist raised. Girls are anguishing about their appearance and what’s expected, as are boys. Who are boys pandering to?