Yabby,

I believe in a previous thread I decided to end discussions with you, and the quality of your posts here have not given me any reason to reverse that decision.

What I will say however, is that the amusement you express at the concept of workers uniting is childish. What your comments about superannuation do not explain is the fact that, regardless of the trillion dollars you claim they own, the reality is that many many Australian workers are concerned about what is happening to them – they are losing conditions pay and job security, their costs of living are ever increasing, and it is getting progressively worse. There is something amiss with your story.

furious george

I have read it. It was very good. It is funny, but also infuriating, because it is so true. I reckon I’ve worked for those people in one form or another!

Shonga,

It is very revealing that you are prepared to accept dumb until something better comes along, but believe workers are their own worst enemies because they thought they’d give dumber a go. Now you believe they should just go back to dumb.

Of course, you're not prepared to go out and find something better than dumb, you'll just wait for it to come along. In the meantime you'll sit back in all your wisdom and pass judgement on what is or is not better than dumb.

How inspiring!

Tao, thanks for contradicting yourself and replying to my
post :) I remind you, that one of my heroes is Robert
Holmes a Court. Not for his ability to make money, but for
his ability to think outside the old square. When Robert
had pocketed yet another 100 million$ in the US, they reminded
him that he did not know the rules. He quietly responded that
"the VietCong did not know the rules either and look what
happened to them !" Tao, you make your rules, I will make
mine. If you post nonsense, I will point out why its nonsense.

No claim of mine about 1 trilion $ of superannuation. Its
well documented, check your facts.

Name me one socialist country, where bureacrats did not land
up feathering their own nests, at workers expense?

Yup many Aussie workers are concerned, as change is happening,
as the real world hits. The sheep which carried them in the
past collapsed from the weight. No more strikes now, because
the colour of the jelly is the wrong one. etc.

Past union thuggery will be restricted to more local industries
like building. The rest will have to learn to paddle their
own canoes in the world market, just like farmers or miners.

Yup, people don't like change, thats well known. But change
is the most certain thing in life. The days of Beasley's
job creation schemes are over, they failed miserably.

Realitly prevails, consumers dominate. If you want to earn
a living, do something to create something that people actually
want to buy. Plain old thuggery of power won't protect you
anymore, be that a business or a worker

WorkChoices are a throw back to the industrial revolution akin to working conditions of the developing world and have no place in the 21st century. Work Choices are anti Australian, a direct attack on Australian freedom and families.Work Choices are Australias September 11. As work choices serve only corrupt buisness and are unsustainable a pro-Australian government will certianly throw them out. If Labour is pro Australian it will extinct work choices legislation. This will be a test as to wether there is corruption within Labour ranks. But given the shocking crime that workchoices has inflicted upon the Australian people will Labour when it wins the next election see to it that those responsible for workchoices and those who have implemented them be brought to justice? Work Choices only serve corruption and are a smoking gun to corrupt buisness practice. Workchoices pose a test for Labour to wether its loyalties lie with the Australian people or to a system which protects corruption when the corrupt are well resourced.

I fear Rudd is too weak and so Howard is unlikely to have a gaol term longer than his term as Prime Minister, the only justice that will be bestowed upon Howard and his hench men will be his condemnation as the most anti Australian prime minister in history. Buisness leaders who have joined in the attack on Australia by adopting work choices will also most likely be left to run free and the Australians whos lives they have destroyed with such horrific conditions will never be compensated.

In truth we will be a society existing in distrust for one another and the seeds for conflict as we have had in industrial relations throughout our history have been resowed, refreshed threatening our own sustainability. Work choices has already become a cancer to our society.

Tao, I'll give you my example of generating income from the land. My family bought a small selection in 1898, with money that they had earned through working (gee funny that). Now the 4th generation is farming the land (although farming is a misnomer, as its grazing country). In the last 109 years, the land size has gone from 2,000 ac to 38,000 ac, through acquisitions as neighbouring farmers have left for the city or retired. There have been no long-term employees, only short-term labour at peak production times (eg shearing). These employees have always worked less and been paid more than the owners of the property. Currently two of the owners should be retiring, but cant afford the labour units to replace themselves. My uncle calculated a few years back that he worked for $4/hour. But accordingly to you he must be a rich fat-cat! No, he works from dawn to dusk 7 days a week, and takes annual holidays of about 3 weeks a year - mind you he doesnt go overseas, he goes and stays with his daughter in WA. Inputs to this property consist mainly of fencing materials and a few chemicals to keep the stock healthy. Even noxious weeds are chipped out rather than sprayed (it costs less to keep your kids busy in school holidays!!)

Tao, you seem to think that only those that have callused hands work hard. In my industry an 80 hour week is common and 50 hours are expected. We are the lowest paid uni graduates of any persuasion. Stress levels are high and there is plenty of lack of sleep as a result. Many of my clients earn more money that I do and quite commonly employees are paid better hourly rates than their employers, who in small business usually work alongside them.

CountryGal you are a sucker if you are working 80 hours a week! More so if you are amongst the lowest paid graduates in Australia!

I take it you work in IT and just as soon as your employer can your work will be offshored to India. Hopefully this will occur before your health is ruined.

There is no virtue in voluntarily working like a slave and if you feel coerced into those ridiculous hours then you need to negotiate better or join a union.

Your desire to be a martyr is no excuse for stopping other people getting representation so they get a fair days pay for a fair days work!

PS I wondered about your stock management skills when you said it was impossible to herd 3 sheep without restraint or hurting them. I, a city slicker, can do that easily even with domestic pet "assistance".

Aah Country Gal,

“Tao,-you-seem-to-think-that-only-those-that-have-callused-hands-work-hard.”

Not at all, I work in legal office and work hard and I don’t have calloused hands. My point is that people like you and me don’t actually make a “direct” contribution to wealth generation. i.e. we don’t produce anything of substance that can be used or consumed, or could be considered tangible wealth. That is not to say that we don’t do useful work, although lawyers and accountants pretty much only exist because of capitalist property law – a bit parasitic really.

The point is that the people who actually physically produce the things that humans need to sustain themselves produce enough for all of us, which then enables the “brain” workers to do the things that they do. There are many vocations in the world that don’t actually produce anything, but they make great contributions to human wealth and wellbeing generally – teachers, nurses, engineers, doctors, scientists, researchers etc. There are many people that society simply couldn’t function without – cleaners, garbage collectors etc, who don’t actually produce anything.

These things are all equally necessary, and contribute to the total wealth of humanity, but some get paid more than others. Some people, who do nothing but contribute “capital” get paid far more than any of them, and justify themselves getting paid for doing nothing because they “risk” capital, and pretend that workers have a lower “direct” contribution to generating wealth.

Your story about your farming family is not uncommon. My partner comes from the country – he is fifth generation. His father’s farm made enough to bring up 4 children, but eventually could only sustain his oldest brother and his 3 children. Now there is no way that it will provide enough for his oldest son and his family. It is no wonder the neighbouring families whose farms your family has acquired “left for the city”. It is a case of get big, or get out. Buy out your neighbour or be bought out. It’s not individual choice, but driven by economics.

cont...