Read 'The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists' by Robert Tressel.

Tao, your theories have been tested to death and failed,
as history shows. Time and time again, workers never
controlled anything, politicians simply lived the good
life at their expense. Govts running anything has been
shown to be a dismal failure.

Much wealth has been created by the power of ideas.
Had Bill Gates lived under communism, the party
apparatus might have decided that he should be
a whatever. Thats the problem, individual creativity
is removed by socialism, with everyone being losers,
apart from a few politicians.

Fact is that today in Australia, workers own 1 trillion
$ worth of superannuation, which is worth as much as
the whole Australian stock exchange. In which socialist
country did workers ever have it so good or own as much
wealth, as they do right here?

Any system that limits the creativity of individuals
to follow their dreams, prove everyone wrong and
create wealth through their ideas, will impoverish
everyone.

Were it not for capitalism, despite its flaws, Tao
would not be on the net right now, using a cheap
computer to communicate with the rest of us.

The fact that capitalism lets individuals be creative,
follow their ideas and dreams and discover answers that
the rest of us had never dreamed of, is its greatest
strength. Thank capitalism for your lifestyle and
cheap access to technology Tao. Socialism could
not have done it, despite your flawed ideology.
Gorby understood all this, thats why he pulled the
plug on a failed experiment.

Tao, you're much more able than I to say what needs to be said.

What has amused me immensely is the patronising re my $12million for every human. My point was, which seemed to get lost on some as they choked on their cake, was that there is obviously ample 'wealth' to go around for all.

There's no need to keep anybody in poverty or barely hanging in there. Working people I mean, CountryGal, not only the ungrateful homeless wastrell. We are discussing how this legislation is going to affect working people. I'm not completely a bleeding heart, left wing, chardonay sipping , do gooder. I work and these work 'choices' affect me and my family.

Another thing I find depressing, rather than amusing, is that the only alternative many seem to be able to imagine is communism. That old bogeyman still creates utter panic.

The problem with workchoices is that it a tool for sectional interests to make more profit from employees who now have lessened power. In times when the economy is doing well its impact will not be as visible. During a recession the mean IR legislation will bite employees and there will be no going back to conditions enjoyed by employees prior to the recession. Already numerous employees have been burnt by this odious legislation; what will it be like at the next economic down turn for employees?

We are being catapulted back to the past as far as working conditions are concerned. Fair go is a concept of the past.

Thanks again yvonne,

Socialism, or communism, is really the only alternative to capitalism, but you need not panic or be depressed. You are mistaking Stalinism and Maoism for socialism and/or communism, and there is a big difference. What most people don’t understand, and our capitalist leaders like to keep it that way, is that Stalinist regimes are not what socialists envisage for the world, and Stalinism is not the inevitable result of socialism or Marxism. Stalinism was counterrevolutionary. It took me a lot of study to understand it myself, and I’ve also found that you need to be reading the right stuff. Someone who calls him/herself a Marxist or socialist, is not necessarily what they say they are.

One of the major tasks of a socialist is to tell workers how it really is, with no sugar coating. That is why I say what needs to be said. Unfortunately it can be a conversation stopper, or a thread stopper!

The truth is that capitalism is in serious decay/decline, which is why workers’ rights and conditions are being attacked all over the world, and why the greatest capitalist country on earth is engaged in illegal aggressive war. No amount of union militancy or anti-war protest will resolve things. It is unsustainable, and humanity has arrived at the precipice – its either socialism or barbarism.

It sounds bad, but I’m optimistic - humanity has the capacity to overcome the huge problems it faces, by first becoming conscious of their causes, and then acting consciously to solve them – and the international working class is the only social force with the power and the reason to do it – as Marx and Engels said - workers have nothing to lose but their chains and everything to gain.

Workers of the world unite!

Hehe, the workers of Australia have united enough, to virtually
own the 1 trillion$ invested in the Australian Stock Exchange!

We can learn alot from history and surprise, surprise, when
people are given a chance, they often act out of self interest.

If we look at the various socialist regimes, what we see is
State appointed bureaucrats, feathering their own little
nests bigtime, whilst providing a bit of regular spin to
keep the workers happy and as suckers of the so called dream.
Nothing changes!

Best we have the choice of paddling our own canoes. It means
that even Tao can go out, start a business of actually providing
consumers what they want and make a living. Consumers vote
every day with their wallets. Let them choose, let those who
aspire to take huge risks take them. The biggest threat we
have to our present standards, are in fact Govt bureaucrats,
pretending to actually care. History shows what happens to
that argument!