David,

Given that you have posted on OLO 3,144 times, it's pretty hard to read everything you write. But I did read yout post despite the headline. Your last post on values was weak - your list is a mish mash of universal practices and personal preferences. eg "Call a spade a spade" is hardly an Australian value shared by all Australians. Many Australians pretend they call a spade a spade even as they lie and cheat. Our PM lies in spadesful and his opponents shovel it about too. And the spin on OLO?

One problem with OLO is that I get tired of the same old predictable opinions based on nothing but assertions or prejudices with no real argument or evidence. Many of these are filled with fear and loathing for the ideas of 'academics' and 'leftists' and they substitute abusive labels for discussion of ideas. It's possibly therapeutic for them but, as a reader, I respect something more meaty, especially when I disagree.

I once wrote a thesis under the direction of a highly conservative academic in London. I disagreed many times with his views but I respected his intellectual rigour. He made me work hard to sort out my arguments, to make sure I was coherent and to marshal proper evidence in support of my case. I learned a lot from him.

In particular I am tired of OLO posters throwing words and concepts about with no regard for definition. 'Multicultural' is the worst example; but 'values', 'culture', civilisation' 'Islamist', 'Howard-haters' and 'Australian' (as in 'true', 'patriotic', 'loyal' and 'un-Australian') come readily to mind.

You damn Yvonne and Is Mise with faint praise because of their limited "appreciation of the cutting edge cultural dynamics being driven by certain interests." There you go again - hint hint; nudge nudge; say no more.

Then you trot out "the 'vast conspiracy'... the cultural dynamics which inevitably go on beneath the observable surface, and which, if not taken into full consideration, well mean one day we wake up wondering where we are and who we are."

This is mush David.

yvonne,
How far would you let others go in repect of their cultures?

My opinion is that they should cast aside any hatreds their culture carries. Obey and respect our laws and social standards.

To do both the above some may have to alter their attitudes to females. Other cultural matters is entirely their business.

Would you be happy enough with this?

And so it begins. The battle between ethnic groups in Sydney to fill the cultural void ...

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/school-gang-brawl-filmed/2007/03/06/1172943407745.html

"School gang brawl filmed
March 6, 2007 - 12:02PM

Videos of a mass brawl in a Sydney schoolyard have been posted on the YouTube website, along with abusive comments suggesting the fight was racially motivated ... "

I heard on the radio this was between Middle-Easterners and Asians.

WARNING: language and violence ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thjco30gY68
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W76ZJzDbhUY&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_am4o1TEGNI

Such a delight to see Australia's future "define themselves by their common humanity". Those who seek to continue immigration and multiculturalism in the face of clear "critical mass" problems are the same moderates who will be the first to head for the hills when, to their incomprehensible surprise, their pita bread is knocked out of their hands as the streets erupt in riots all around them.

JY, don't listen to Mirko. He and his "sociologists will be puzzled for decades" whilst the country burns around them. It is time to go over-the-top on a program of monocultural civility, that's the only way we will survive.

>>>>Banjo- cultural tolerance stops at the law. Things like FGM are illegal and no amount of cultural bluster should ever change that. Immigrants come here to live like Australians and must therefore act within the law. Multiculturalism is not about changing who we are. Its about recognizing that other cultures have value as well. But we don't have to tolerate the intolerable

>>>>That's right online_east

Take one incident and make a fragmented society out of it. After all, schoolyard fights never happened before multiculturalism. In monoculture societies it is all gumdrop smiles and strawberry rivers and no-one says a harsh word to anyone.

Anti-immigrant posters talk up a storm about the failures of multiculturalism and immigration, but I have yet to see any of them offer a solution aside from 'bugger all the immigrants. Force 'em to live like white Christians."

Do any of you actually have a plan? Or does it all just hang on deporting everyone else that doesn't live like you?

DB talks is pseudo-reasonable terms about tribalism like it is an inherent part of human nature. Maybe it is. But so is rape, murder and a lot of other instincts that we manage to control via our intellect.

We are sentient. We are self aware. As such we are able to self-regulate. We are able to decide that a particular behaviour is not right, and therefore not do it. We can challenge ourselves to be better every day. That is what multiculturalism offered. A challenge to everyone to look beyond the selfish border of your own prejudices and see something of worth in others.

But you and the others don't want to be better. Easier, more comfortable to cling to rancid old ideas of cultural superiority.

Well- news for you. Australia IS multicultural. Nothing is going to change it. You can either come onboard, offer a solution and make it a go, or sit in the corner and sulk.

Your choice.

Dear Myla
I'm a bit confused by your post.. are you suggesting that I am anti immigrant ? and that I want them all to live like 'White Christians' ?
If yes, then please read this: (don't freak at the headline) read first then react.....
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=164

Migrants are MOST welcome to Australia as far as I'm concerned. The only 'but' is this "In controlled numbers with due attention to their cultural compatability and political volatility, and values"

I would rate immigrants on a totally different basis than the naive and misguided foundation of 'universal human rights' or other such gobbledygook. I would say "do these people constitute high potential for enhancing our social cohesian, our ethical boundaries, our moral framework, our cultural norms, economic growth and our political stability" ?

I don't care WHAT color they are, or race, but I DO care about all the above. I then echo Howards words "We.. determine who comes here, and under what circumstances they come" absolutely and without apology or compromise.

Just as one anecdotal example of the 'political stability' aspect of migration is the seat of BENNELONG.
It appears that
a) large numbers of Asians have moved into the area.
b) Asians tend to vote labor more than coalition.

(surprise surprise the reason is partly a perception that Labor is more easy going on immigration than the Coalition and there is more chance of more of their folk coming here under labor)

So, now, due to demographic changes of a particular racial flavor, and some electoral boundary re-alignment, our 2nd longest serving prime minister could lose his own seat ! Now..THAT is political instability based on race/culture.

JWH could be kicked out?
Oh! HAPPY DAY!