"your post didnt actually contribute anything to the text of the article,
thanks for trying
Posted by julatron, Friday, 16 February 2007 3:02:25 PM"

Except that everyone of them has to do with gullible warming, Co2 and the purported rise in sea levels.The Tuvuluans have been playing this little number of we are doomed for some years now, as a way to get more funds and attention. Pity about it being a beat up vis a vis AGW being the main cause.

And who cares if the one source referenced by EV compiles these reports together in a readily usable list. Only a dimwit would infer that that somehow diminishes what the respective authors have to say.

I would suggest that bigmal actually go to Funafuti Atoll, earn the trust of locals - they're sick and tired of parachute journalists and others descending on them to "tell their story", usually badly - listen respectfully, observe, ask highly informed, sceptical but polite questions, research the hard, rigorously peer-reviewed scientific literature to do with the many obvious changes to the local environment - some self-inflicted to be sure but others amplified by global warming's many and insidious effects - and then start commenting in an informed way about the plight of Tuvalu and other, similarly afflicted, countries.

As for the Canadian newspaper series, interesting, but sceptical readers should research that newspaper's editorial position on global warming generally. Arch-sceptics like Andrew Bolt and Christopher Pearson here should have their columns syndicated to that newspaper with no difficulties, except it's not a News Corp-owned outlet.

Is it *absolutely necessary* for major world polluters to inflict our environmental damage on peoples such as Tuvaluans and i-Kiribati?

Yes bigmal, those crafty Tuvaluans have the gullible completely sucked in, though I would doubt whether you or other denialists would care to stand in their wellies.

As for EV's links, ideally I would prefer the denialists to present evidence which has been tested and agrees with the data, and new hypotheses would also be welcome. It is much like serving up sausages in a breadroll and tom sauce, or with gravy, mashed spuds and fried onion: The intention is to suggest something new, when in truth the basic food is the same. Why is it that the denialists will stress that it is the underlying science which is of importance, then make posts which emphsise only the eminence of the scientists and not their arguments?

I like this link which shows the folly of placing the eminence of the scientist above the merit of the argument.

http://www.chsourcebook.com/articles/evidence.html

I'm not a climate change sceptic (nor 'realist'). I accept the phenomenon. However I'm less accepting that the plight these people find themselves in is due to CC. My understanding is that others looking at the problem blame the residents for excess ground water extraction, land use methods and the destruction of outlying reefs, allowing waves in. Then, separately, tectonic movements also impact the islands.

The article seems to imply that, given the author was up to his knees in water whereas before he would have been on dry land, the local sea level has risen 1m (at a guess) or more. This puzzles me. Can someone explain this to me: How can there be a tidal 'bump' in the ocean surface? These are ocean islands, not Venice. Sorry but water temperature rises and El Nino (which covers half the globe) don't cut it for me as explanations yet. But yes, we (the global community) will need to help these people whatever the cause of their plight.

PeterJH writes -

"I'm not a climate change sceptic (nor 'realist'). [snip] My understanding is that others looking at the problem blame the residents for excess ground water extraction, land use methods and the destruction of outlying reefs, allowing waves in."

Very briefly, WWII excavations & related works seriously damaged Funafuti - the 'borrow pits' (Taisala), reef channel blastings, port works, etc. - shattering the freshwater lens beneath the atoll, interrupting tidal flows bringing sand to beaches, etc. Plus population pressures, 'urban drift' from the Outer Islands to Funafuti, and a serious solid waste problem they're trying to fix now.

"Then, separately, tectonic movements also impact the islands."

Negligible and not relevant to Funafuti, which is perched on an ancient volcanic peak aeons extinct. Extremely geologically stable.

"The article seems to imply that, given the author was up to his knees in water whereas before he would have been on dry land, the local sea level has risen 1m (at a guess) or more. This puzzles me."

Local sea water seepage flooding happens every year at extreme high tide times. Had last Feb's tides been accompanied by local severe storms, it could have been much worse. Parts of Funafuti are reclaimed swamps, using WWII technologies & then known hydrology. The whole mix is being amplified by the effects of global warming.

"[snip] How can there be a tidal 'bump' in the ocean surface? These are ocean islands, not Venice. Sorry but water temperature rises and El Nino (which covers half the globe) don't cut it for me as explanations yet."

Go look up reliable hydrology, climatology, and related 'sea sciences' on how and why sea level rises and falls seem to defy basic logic. Tonga's had the highest recorded sea level rises over 13 years according to the SEAFRAME monitors. Could this be, in part, because Tonga's close to undersea volcanoes and an active tectonic plate?

"But yes, we (the global community) will need to help these people whatever the cause of their plight."

Agree entirely.

tsk tsk, Ev. This is the thread today where you've put this. Do you have an opinion of your own for OLO?