Dear West (a John->West communique)
Firstly, a finite, natural universe requires an infinite, supernatual creator. Hence, God is not the ego. It is unfortunate that you have reduced your concept of God to a god made in your image when He is so much greater than this. Doesn't this mean you are really just worshipping yourself, rather than someone slightly more qualified?
You say that "God belief leads to violence and tyranny". I am sorry, but this is just plainly historically wrong. Far more blood was shed in the name of atheistic ideologies in the 20th Century than all religions in all other centuries combined. Further, take the example of the early Christian church who transformed a society based so much on slavery, injustice, oppression and mass-murder that it made Hitler's Germany look pleasant. It was Christians that abolished slavery (twice), Christians who gave us hospitals, schools, universities, representative participatory government, science, the rule of law, freedom of speech and religion etc. Incidentally, it was Christianity that elevated women from property to being men's equal. Indeed, the almost uniform testimony on the witnesses in antiquity (even hostile witnesses) is that early Christianity was characterised by its love and undeserved kindness. Conversely, unbelief in God, always invariably has lead historically to violence and tyranny.

----Continued from last post---- )sorry I'm verbose
West,
When you say Osama believes in God, he doesn't believe in YHWH Elohim Adonai but Allah, and the two are like chalk and cheese. I'm sure you would no more agree with me saying Communism, Fascism, Hedonism, Nihilism and agnosticism are all the same because they are non-theistic belief systems. Allah and the Christian God have less in common than Osama and Jesus.
You say that "On a strictly biological level human society will not survive if it tolerates homicide. Human society has always rejected Homicide and has punished killers; it is part of natural selection." Firstly, natural selection is about the strong murdering the weak, and not being interfered with doing so. Secondly, there are many societies who haven't punished killers. Indeed, as far as I know, bringing all killers to justice before a fair hearing I'm pretty sure is a Judaeo-Christian thing.
You mention "an opposing force of good ". What is good? I suppose if you can just define God, I suppose you can just define good. But if we're just rearranged pondscum all, what makes your defintion of good any more valid than Hitler's or Osama's? What makes Osama bad if there is no absolute authority? Good can only be defined by the one who is good, ie. God. Likewise, the "justification" you mention can only be defined by the one who is just, ie. God. We cannot be just, impartial judges as either victims and perpetrators of wrong. Secular law (incidentally only existing as common law was based on God's law) you argue can take life, but the one who gave all life can't?

Look forward to hear your reply,
John3.30

P.S. Numbat, Jesus was clear that whoever believed in Him goes to heaven

Dear Stephany.... in your list of 'evil people' who God could not possibly love, you neglected the man who authored 13 out of the 26 books of the New Testament. (PAUL)

I may have already posted it, but its worth repeating.

ACTS 8:1ff
[On that day a great persecution broke out against the church at Jerusalem, and all except the apostles were scattered throughout Judea and Samaria. 2Godly men buried Stephen and mourned deeply for him. 3But Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off men and women and put them in prison.]

Notice the words 'dragged off'.. this would be mothers, fathers, teenagers.. anyone who professed Christ.

But what happened ? This same man after an encounter with the risen Christ, could write:

1 Cor 13
4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

WOAH.. did I read that correctly ? The man who one day is 'dragging people from their homes' (because they name Christ as Lord) is now speaking the most mellow and sweet words of compassion and love ?

So, when we are outraged by the thought that God could love Osama, lets realize, that His love is a different quality than ours. He is not limited by our weakness. God is also just, and so sin will go unpunished, but for those who have repented and come to Christ, their sins are taken by Him.

John perhaps you could explain the evidence that proves that "a finite, natural universe requires an infinite, supernatual creator". Where did you get that information?

Likewise Boaz , Gods love is different? God communicated to you person to person explaining what his love is? A Skeptic would accuse you of simply making it up. Im sure you will clear up as how you came accross such intimate information on what god thinks.

Still both posts appear as if I am correct that God is the ego as without prior proof of god it is the ego which claims such things of itself.

Yes, God as creator of heaven and earth and all of us, loves us all, and revealed his character and will to us on earth for a reason -- to save us from the wrath of God. There will be a judgment.

As God says through his prophet Amos repeatedly: "..prepare to meet your God." So, the question is, is Osama prepared to meet God's wrath?" He's got to do something with all those sins, e.g. the three thousand souls he shut off from earthly life, for which he will earn God's wrath.

And a God who can create universes -- galaxies, and all that stuff out there that is too far for astronomers to see yet -- can seek justice in ways beyond human imagining.

Osama should be afraid, very, very afraid.

He has one chance, repent in his heart for all those lives he so casually laughed out of existence, and accept Jesus Christ as his Lord, then follow his ways (outlined in the Sermon on the Mount). No more violence, that is.

Jesus speaks of hell a lot in the Bible, his word. He describes it. It isn't pretty, and furthermore, its not a place where one can leave, if one wants, and go to a pleasant place with air conditioning, and where one isnt' crowded, maimed, by foul creatures (fallen angels, filthy and corrupt in mind, with malice towards humans).

Luckily, Jesus does love the world, and he offers a way out of that one way,irreversible exit towards judgment, which no human can stand. Change (archaic: repent). Trans. for Osama -- change your mind and black heart. God hates black hearts.