“translated through a chinese whispers merry-go-round of biblical proportions”
Not true, you should really do some study of the Jewish scholars and Christian monks over the centuries who painstakingly devoted their lives to making more copies of the Bible, checking after every word, then every sentence, then every section. It was a long and drawn out process, but they believed it is the Word of God, and it would be worthy of no less. I’m yet to see a whole lot of proof of the “Chinese whisperers” theory of the Bible, and actually quite a lot of evidence against it, including the Dead Sea Scrolls (>99% accuracy, the <1% had to do with spelling of words and rearrangement of sentences).

“It can not be any worse than Judaism or Christianity”
Aqvarivs, I earnestly implore you to compare the two religions. “It cannot be worse…” according to who? Do some studies, ask Jews, Christians and Muslims, and if you have time, read the Bible and the Koran. Assuming that two religions are equal just because they both claim to speak for God is ludicrous- they have MANY differences.

Nice one skid marx.

“I know one thing for sure there has never been a atheist suicide bomber.”

TRTL you’re entitled to your opinion, and thank you for sharing it :) But do you honestly believe the Bible is that evil? Do you realise most Christians read the whole Bible, not just the Sermon on the Mount? There’s been about 2000+ years of scholarship on the issues of violence and if you haven’t read a lot about them, I encourage you to do so.

Re: your suicide bomber comments:

Yes, and there’s never been any utopian ideologies steeped in atheistic justification that has resulted in the deaths of over 100 million in the 20th Century by their own government… oh crap, wait, yes there was.

Religion doesn’t kill people, people kill people.

Coach, you can adequately retort my earlier statement by answering this simple question with a response devoid of dogma:

Why is the Qu'ran subject to corruption via interpretation, but the bible is not?

I hear your comments in regard to the original texts of the bible being in existence, but even if this is the case, what of the original authors?

Why are the christian writers hearing the direct voice of god, but not the muslim ones?

What possible way can you guarantee the accuracy of a text that is thousands of years old? A text that refers to witches, people being turned into pillars of salt, and miracles like walking on water.

Funny how all those things don't seem to happen anymore.

The article that started this was all about leadership, and that is all I wrote about in my first post.

It has since become an attack on both the Bible and the Qu'ran.

Since both are under attack it may be worth looking at both in the same way, that is, how does each 'book' stand up to textural analysis.

I will not repeat or rabbit on about it here, instead I would suggest that people interested in the truth go to

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/denis_giron/multiple.html

for a well structured and citationed analysis of the Qu'ran, that has as its conclusion:

“Through all this, it has been shown that the Qur'an is indeed given to repetition of whole passages of variant versions. Blatant contradictions have been shown. With this now before us, how can we conclude that this text is the word of an Almighty God, or even a single Arab nomad? It is quite clear that the Qur'an is, as Cook and Crone said at the outset, "the product of belated and imperfect editing of materials from a plurality of traditions." There is simply no other possibility. Whenever the Qur'an was compiled, its compiler(s) took numerous variant traditions into consideration, and included many, or even all, of them into the official cannon. The result is the Qur'an we have today.”

And from:

http://debate.org.uk/topics/history/quran.htm

“while we can concede that the Qur'an is a fascinating book to study, it simply cannot maintain its status as the final Word of God it claims to be. The declaration of textual perfection by the Muslims simply do not stand up to any critical analysis of their content. As we have seen, the Qur'an carries numerous inconsistencies with the former scriptures, while its narratives and stories help to discredit its claim to be the true Word of God. Popular sentiment and unquestioning fanatical devotion by Muslims are simply not adequate as a proof for the Qur'an's authenticity. When we take a sober analysis of the sources of the Qur'an, we find conclusive evidence that the confidence of the Muslims for their scripture is simply unfounded.”

TRTL,
The comparisons you pose are valid. I’d suggest however, very few people appreciate the historical backdrop of either book to care, or relate to how western civilisation and its basis for law have been framed. I think Hamlet comes somewhat closer to a distinguishing of the two books – minding that Biblical literalists will generally miss the whole point.

In a secular state - one that attempts to hold the balance between competing religious claims - it is clear that no one religion can be forced on people. Equality before God is seen in the ideal of equality before the law, however hard that is to achieve. Elements of procedural justice, which are still neglected the world over, appear already in ‘the trial of Adam and Eve’ (audz alteram partem: the accused should always be heard) and throughout the Old Testament: for example, in the need for two concurring witnesses. The list is endless.

The vexed question is undoubtedly that of Islam, the problem being compounded by the wide diversity of views within it, particularly the extremist. While many people can perhaps identify with the high moral standards enshrined in Islam, other features, such as the role of women etc., would be unacceptable. And since conversion to Islam is largely a matter of correct form, rather than correct relationship, it cannot share a commitment to religious toleration. Traces of Roman Catholicism certainly have, of recent time, borne similar sentiment. Undoubtedly, however, many of our statutes are largely a symbolic reminder of the Christian basis to our law.
Cont..

cont'd..
The Rushdie controversy in 1989, helped prompt the establishment of the so called Muslim Parliament of Great Britain in 1990-92 formed by Dr Siddiqui. He felt that British Muslims needed to be able to provide the Islamic education and other services they need to survive as Muslims in a hostile environment, separately from the main British State. Dr Siddiqui's activism took the form of supporting, promoting and assisting the first Islamic State of the modern era that was established by the Revolution in Iran. The concern is, radical voices that insist that loyalty to a global Islamic faith takes precedence over allegiance to the British state enjoy growing appeal. They depict the Anglo-American confrontation with Iraq over its invasion of Kuwait in 1990 along with current exploits and the interference made in Bosnia and Herzegovina as a Western assault on the Islamic world.

Our heritage, oft forgotten and with an obligation to be the salt of social justice, poses a question, can our secular state remain truly value free if it is to survive, or is there so much self-loathing we hate our freedom - in our expression and our speech?

TurnRightThenLeft,

The reason why I compared the two books is to make my point that it is not “a matter of perspective” or opinion. The two books have very serious differences, so one must be wrong or both – but they cannot both be right.

>> Why is the Qu'ran subject to corruption via interpretation, but the bible is not?<<

Both texts can be misinterpreted – but the Qur’an makes definite repeated attacks against Jews and Christians, these cannot be interpreted any other way.

>> I hear your comments in regard to the original texts of the bible being in existence, but even if this is the case, what of the original authors?<<

Although the bible has been written by mere men of different statures, in different styles, over many centuries, it is found to be cohesive and sequential. That order is a clear indication of one same source.

The author is God expressing and revealing himself through events ranging from the mundane to the miraculous.

God is the author of life and He created us as free willed people not puppets acting under His direction.

Although the authors are physically dead, their writings can be trusted as meaningful and trusworthy because of the many prophesies, historical events, archaeological discoveries, always favouring the Bible.

>> Why are the christian writers hearing the direct voice of god, but not the muslim ones?<<

A quick answer is “the Holy Spirit”.

>> What possible way can you guarantee the accuracy of a text that is thousands of years old? A text that refers to witches, people being turned into pillars of salt, and miracles like walking on water.

Funny how all those things don't seem to happen anymore. <<

I grant you there are a lot of weird stories in there. I believe they are all true because I trust the author of the book (God). He doesn’t lie nor does He change His mind.

Miracles still exist today. God uses natural and supernatural measures to reach people. Most conversions from Islam to Christianity are the result of dreams, vivions, and the unexplainable.