The abortion debate has been going on for years, with little change. We still allow the most vulnerable and loving among us, our unborn children, to have their life terminated. Though the grounds to abortion are clear and of a high bar when law allowed it, because there is no consequence to any breach, practically it only takes a woman to present herself for one...and the path is cleared for one...then everyone goes back to what they were doing besides lip service for personal 'issues' but none for the dead child and 'what if allowed to live outcome' including that the child could have become a fine good adult we all could be proud of...

I for one have taken the power in my control to extreme care level ie my sperm. I do not release within a woman, even with condom. The release is away from the woman, and have soap and wet towel nearby to collect them soon after. This way I know that I will not be responsible for an abortion under any circumstances...I sleep better for it...

Of course I have learnt to resist the temptations of words like 'just come' at the heat of the moment by keeping in mind good sex is a controlled balanced event of body, sexual energy and rhythm, not passion out of control where all consequences are pushed out of the mind at that moment...

Sam

Sam said, Hi. You're a pretty tough guy, aren't you? No coming, even when you want to, resisting temptation and man enough to clean up after yourself in the bedroom. What a man.

"...practically it only takes a woman to present herself for [an abortion]..."

You make it sound so easy!
'Let me see,' says sexually active woman beginning her day. 'Shopping, visit Karen, oh - get an abortion, pick up something for dinner, then back out on to the pub for some more sex!'

And the following phrase: "then everyone goes back to what they were doing besides lip service for personal 'issues' but none for the dead child" reveals another little truth about you, my macho friend: You have never spoken to a woman who's had an abortion. In fact, I don't believe you've spoken to many women. You certainly don't seem to have much respect for them. No women EVER forgets having an abortion. Some have no regrets, some hate themselves bitterly for the rest of their lives for it, but still would make the same decision.
But I guess those are just female 'personal issues' that can be dabbed away with a Kleenex and a trip to the after-Christmas sales, eh?

ps. 'soap and a wet towel'? Why would we need to know that?

Franzy

I actually have a daughter who is, “ Beautiful, intelligent, extremely intelligent.” And I have no doubt that if she were to go into law she would excel at it and were she to fall pregnant when this was inconvenient she would make the right decision for herself (she is very strong willed and determined and she is not yet eight) The scenario that you paint would however contravene all kinds of anti discrimination laws and I would expect that if my daughter were the absolutely brilliant advocate that you suggest she would be then her employer would value her enough to accommodate changes in her life. And If they would not I am sure that she would make their lives hell through the courts.

I wonder if this scenario comes from your experience Franzy?

“Would you presume to tell her not to?”

I used to be quite fervently ‘pro choice” (which is a misnomer if ever there was one) but when my wife and I finally decided to have children it was not as easy as do the business and get a child. That experience made me realise just how precious each child actually is. So my position has changed. I’m not going to picket abortion clinics or deny any woman the rights that the law allows them but I will through venues such as this do my best to point out that putting on a pair of rose colored glasses to make it “easier” for a woman to choose to kill her child by denying its humanity is wrong. Killing that child may sometimes be justifiable or necessary but denying its humanity is NEVER required.
Children are not just fancy pets or accessories to a life focused on work. Having children is not just a choice it is a biological imperative for all creatures. The question I would ask any one when trying to make a decision that puts a career against having a child is :
Do you work to live or live to work? Personally I would choose the former over the latter every time

Franzy, there is nothing to be gained from cheap shots along gender lines: “Often the underlying aggression of particularly male pro-lifers is directed at woman wanting to avoid their motherly duties.”

With respect, the example you gave is a no-brainer and it is a pity you got hooked up on men and male bosses, which detracts from the point that certain career choices and lifestyles can compete with motherhood (or fatherhood for that matter).

The obvious answer is that this female professional should do two things:
firstly, work out what is really important to her in life, including her long term priorities; and
secondly, allow her feet to do the talking if there is any aspect of the work or work environment that militates against achievement of her goals.

If family and quality of life are important to her she should be very aware that both women and men choose to balance personal life and work demands. Of course there are a few women and men who choose career (and $$) above all else. That is their choice and they wear the consequences. The Beamer, status and restaurants are worth it to some.

It is a myth that women bosses are more flexible and less demanding on personal time.

I don’t know that the risk would be high that an intelligent young professional focussed on career would fall pregnant very often, but if it happened, she would realise that time is of the essence. That is why we supported the morning after pill. She would be very timely in her response, either way.

As I said earlier, climbing the greasy pole is life's ambition for some. However for lesser mortals the biological clock is always ticking and from media reports there are women who claim they were misled into believing that their fertility after age thirty was fine, but later to their cost they discovered otherwise.

There are pros and cons of all decisions and there are no simple answers. However individuals must learn to take responsibility for their own decisions and not blame others.

Great piece Audrey apple.
After reading I thought "thanks for the insight" as a man I'll never know what it's like to be pregnant. So it was interesting to let us into your world in a small way. The next thing I thought was I hope a sane person got to post before the wacko's do. Thanking fully that was the case. I'm also glad to say that while many of the post where predictable some where not, and the fact is the post held my interest as much as the article did. I was going to comment on some of the post but found you've done that already.
The comment I will make is this. To continue to believe that fertilised ovum should be given the same rights as a fully from human is to define the reality of our understanding biology. This belief can only be rooted in irrational thought. However the real point to be made here is that the so called prolifers have little interest in the foetus their real goal is to control to force their beliefs onto the rest of us. You see the point they really don't get is that pro-choice is just that pro choice. If you don't want an abortion don't have one. If you want one have one.

Ps abortion is a legitimate form of birth control, we have used it ever since the birth control pill was invented. Taking a drug that doesn't allow the ovum to attach to the womb is now different to pulling it off.

StewartGlass what’s the relevance of asking when human life begins? Until it’s born the foetus can die in utero for any number of reasons, admittedly a rare occurrence in white Australia with our excellent access to health care – for now.

As the Kelloggs ad for Special K asks, hasn’t the mother got any rights? Why should a woman compromise her health bearing a child she doesn’t want, can’t care for adequately.

No don’t mention adoption, many of us remember that up until the 1970s unwanted babies grew up in orphanages. Current estimates indicate that there would 70,000 babies surplus to requirements. The social cost of rearing these children in orphanages with the stunted outcomes these environments provide is beyond the cost that Australian society wants to cover. There are no jobs for unskilled kids who leave school at 15, there really aren’t many jobs for university graduates who aren’t prepared to work overseas either [ however that’s another story].

Iain Hall, discrimination on sexual grounds is still illegal on the statute books but is all too common in the workplace. Where do women who get into the higher echelons of the workforce climb the career ladder? Very rarely in private industry - women in their 40s and 50s who have climbed the corporate ladder did so in public service organisations. And when a potential boss admits to selecting a male over you 15 years later there is bugger all you can do.

Cornflower suggests that women need to decide their work life balance, and implied in that is the idea that career women shouldn’t get pregnant. In Australia most professional women find they work full time or not at all. If the woman isn’t in a stable relationship she won’t have children – perhaps the brightest Australians aren’t reproducing.

Other factors - high price of housing and availability of affordable longterm childcare.

And gents how many of you have heard or uttered the memorable phrase “I don’t want someone else’s brats”. This phrase alone indicates the precariousness of a single mother ever being in a long term stable relationship.