Iain Hall – How nice for your daughter to have the kind of father she might be frightened of confiding in over a serious and potentially traumatic decision because of your ‘disapproval’.

Darlene – Have you been rummaging through my magazines again, you naughty femme-fatale, you?

Cornflower –I’m a feminist and I absolutely agree with you that there needs to be more research into the reasons for high cases of unwanted pregnancies and better support for single or struggling parents. However, there’s nothing more insulting than the suggestion that women who abort for reasons other than medical or psychological fears are somehow frivolous and selfish. If men were the ones to get pregnant, do you think they’d be so willing to sacrifice their lives, ambitions and careers to stay at home with a baby they didn’t want?

Gekko – When it is old enough to survive by itself outside the womb. Of course we’re not going to go around killing two year olds and old people (which, might I add, is one of the most tiresome and illogical of emotive arguments from Team Pro-Life). This is because they are human beings. And no, I don’t believe foetuses are.

Mylakhrion – “If pro-lifers want more women to make the 'right' choice then they should be trying to rebuild the structures that made child rearing a community responsibility- not demonizing young women for coming out on the losing side of an equation we have given them.” Team Pro-Life are well into the community activity of berating those who choose abortion, but perhaps not so much into the community activity of collectively raising a child. It takes a village and all that…

Mykah – How can you confidently say it IS? There’ll never be any definitive test to prove humanity in a cluster of cells, so we must continue as we are now – with the pregnant woman being free to determine the circumstances of her reproduction without condemnation from people who have no understanding of her circumstance, situation or desires.

Mark Richardson - Boy. He's a boy.

Franzy
Did you read the article I discuss in that blog post? I think not, you are putting your foot in your mouth, again.
The link http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2088-2534611,00.html.The ponit I make in the post is If I could, should I?

Now what part “support for my daughter is absolute and immutable” is beyond your comprehension?

Do you have any children? I think that you don’t and I think that your rant about the humanity of a child is decided by the mother does not advance your cause at all. It is just feminist dogma poorly articulated. In Australia any woman can legally procure an abortion should that be necessary. The difference between you and I is that you think that any whim of the woman concerned is adequate excuse for killing that un born child but I think that due care and concern should be given to the fact that from the time of conception that Zygote or fetus or what ever term you choose to use is a human being.

“I didn’t really understand the contradiction you are pointing out”
You claimed that a woman has the absolute right to decide the humanity of an unborn child .No Ifs Buts or Maybes. Then you took offence when your argument is taken to its logical extreme; that a woman can decide that a fetus, at term, is not human if it suits her. And therefore kill it.
Do you get that? It is a contradiction that makes you look very silly indeed.

AUDREY you said:

"I never said I thought it was killing, so please don’t imply that I am selfish and murdering through rose coloured glasses"

and you believe a fetus is living (but not human til it is born)

Q: If you don't murder or kill a fetus, what do you call it when you stop it living via an abortion?

Oh Audrey - thou hast outed me! I was wondering when they were going to figure it out.

Iain - So if you would support your daughter absolutely and immutably, why not someone else getting an abortion?

I read the article. I get it. You are wondering whether you would genetically alter your unborn child so they wouldn’t turn out gay? I know gay people have a tougher life, but does thinning out their numbers remind you of anything?

I AM offended by the ridiculousness of taking the argument to its logical extreme. Find me a woman who would willingly abort her healthy pregnancy in the 39th week (abortions performed in the third trimester are extremely rare in Australia and are always matters of life or death for the mother) and then find me a doctor willing to perform that abortion after the health of the pregnancy and the health and sanity of mother has been established. THEN you can have your logical extremes.
Please - find me a doctor who says "We performed the abortion when the mother said she just couldn't face going through the ordeal of giving birth next week."
And find me the pregnant woman who says "Had all the ultrasounds, booked into Women's and Children's, but suddenly I just didn't want it anymore! I changed my mind! Abortion please!"

Logical indeed...

StewartGlass – A: An abortion. (duh?)

Mark Richardson – Heh heh heh heh. “Franzy is arguing for chick’s rights, so Franzy must be a chick!” Heh heh heh.

Franzy, the reason I assumed you were female is that you write like someone who's doing an arts or humanities PhD, and such people are overwhelmingly female.

It's not easy to get the mind so far into intellectual modernism and so far away from normal modes of thought - it takes long exposure to the academy.

BTW, the fact I mischaracterised your gender doesn't affect my criticisms of your arguments on this issue. I had actually hoped you might tell us reassuringly that I had misunderstood what you wrote.

Thank you, Audrey, for sharing your story. I must confess that I don't know what I would have done in the same circumstance. I am lucky enough to have had my daughter when I was in a stable, committed relationship. I tend to think that if I had fallen pregnant in less certain circumstances, I would keep the baby, but I don't know. I have had two friends in situations like yours, and they both chose to terminate their pregnancies. In one instance, the girl in question had mental health problems which made her decide that she needed to get treatment before she became a parent. In the other instance, the girl was young and did not feel ready to become a parent. She wanted to finish her degree and establish her career. She was vehement that she did not want the child at all.

I did not feel totally comfortable with termination in either case (that's just my personal view) but there is no way that I would ever have told either girl that what she was doing was wrong, and I offered my unconditional support to both girls. After all, I wasn't the one who would have to bear the child! The problem is that it's usually the woman who ends up having to "hold the baby" (literally). If the father wants, he can walk away much more easily (having no physical connection), and it's likely to have much less effect on his life and career.

There's so much grey (what if the foetus is a product of a rape? what if the foetus is severely disabled? if you support abortion, what about euthanasia of a severely disabled baby?). I don't like to see it in black and white. If my daughter came home and told me she was pregnant, I would support her in whatever choice she made. I would try not to let my own views get in the way.