Gekko,

I think you are on the correct path. The succinct questions you ask don’t allow for plausible deniability.

Especially these: ‘If a woman can abort at any time, does this extend to killing a newborn child? Or to a baby born prematurely? If not, why not? On what basis is a decision made as to when a child is 'human' and deserving of protection in the eyes of the law?’

In the post above, I believe the answer is to be found in super-natural, cultist wisdom. The inability of even the lawmakers to answer Your questions, will definitively prove that it is only the wisdom of which was then in the middle and dark ages, that gives the Feminists a thin clutch on the laws gonads and rationality.

And so, here it is folks, straight from the host animals mouth, the very interpretations I have been mentioning. Apple et al are quite prepared to someway label the foetus un-remorselessly, whilst the ‘host’ is able to interpret through some unknown, (or at least un-reavealed) medium, that the glorious child within is, perhaps, unworthy. Apples one eyed views, of course, are not silly (or so she would have us believe). Nor was her very own pre-human ‘tapeworm’ form, and her subsequent childhood. All the way to the present.

Apple, you do not yet live in a communist nation. I have the right to freedom of speech. Nothing you can think, say or do can stop me from providing hardcore evidence of the incorrect thought behind withchcrafted foeticide. You do not hold a monopoly on debate, and can not tell me:- ‘Please refrain from commenting here anymore.’

Specifically to answer the question when does the foetus become a baby... I think the answer is 'us', meaning we use ourselves as the reference point. When the growing baby begins to start looking like us and functioning like us, then it is a baby...

http://embryology.med.unsw.edu.au/
has good pictures of the early stages, or do a search on 'embryology'.

For me its when the baby start to respond to painful stimuli, ie feels pain.
http://www.spucscotland.org/education/beginningoflife/foetaldevelopment/
Yep, read that section again... before 10 weeks of age...when most abortions occur...
And this is what caused the huge worldwide reaction against abortions, there are pretty gruesome high definition ultrasound showing the baby responding to an abortions, heart rate spikes, face turns into a cry_ from the ultrasound the baby looked about 16 weeks

I think different people will determine when a unborn baby is a human child, and of course if they are anti or pro abortion...

Sam
Ps~I am trying to verify if 90000 abortions per year includes d&c (dilatation and curettage, a procedure also for woman who have already miscarried to remove the remaining products of conception, and it seems the actual abortions are more than 90 000 as number of women have them in private clinics outside medicare (item no 35643)...
http://www.ama.com.au/web.nsf/doc/WEEN-6CG284

sam said: "it seems the actual abortions are more than 90 000 as number of women have them in private clinics outside medicare (item no 35643)..."

As mentioned earlier, it has also been reported that the grestest incidence is in the 20-25 age group and the second highest in the 25-30 age group, yet the number for the 15-20 age group is much lower and has dropped to a plateau over the years. It is time there was independent research into what is going on, because there would seem to be more complex forces at work rather than 'failure of contraception'.

IAIN HALL -
I note you accuse myself and others of not having children,otherwise we wouldn't post the messages that we do.
Sorry to burst your bubble but not only am I a mother,I also know several mothers who have assisted their daughters in having abortions.
One girl was in year 12,the other partway through her uni degree.Both were using contraception but,after the abortions,both girls(not related) were found to be highly fertile,rendering even the strongest contraceptive useless.I know of other mothers who have had abortions inside marriage,for various reasons.
And yes I would support my daughter if she told me she was going to have an abortion.
It's HER body,it's HER decision.
Not yours or mine but HERS.

Audrey said: "Mykah – How can you confidently say it IS? [is human] There’ll never be any definitive test to prove humanity in a cluster of cells, so we must continue as we are now – with the pregnant woman being free to determine the circumstances of her reproduction without condemnation from people who have no understanding of her circumstance, situation or desires."

Audrey, you are implying that you can't unequivocally show that it's not human. The burden of proof in this case rests with you, and any others who would like be free to dispose of a human life. As I said before, would you shoot a gun if you were blindfolded and were not sure that a human being was in the firing line? I suspect you wouldn't and I suspect 100% of "pro-choice" proponents here wouldn't either. The unborn human (or foetus) situation is just the same. You cannot prove that its no human so don't pull the trigger.

By the way, this is not a matter of private morality. We can take a personal-options approach for many things, but what we're talking about here is ending human life. It wouldn't be feasible to say to someone who kills another human that they are just exercising choice. We do have public standards of right and wrong that are enforceable by the state and the prohibition on the willful taking of another human life is the most basic of our protections. It remains a public issue until you can prove that the unborn is not human, any protestations about your personal circumstances and desires being beside the point.

How do you think the public would respond if some lunatic wilfully killed the foetus of some endangered mammal, or destroyed the eggs of some endangered reptile or bird? No doubt there would be a public outcry and the perpetrator would be rightly charged with some sort of crime against animals. Surely a non-born human life is worth just as much respect, if there is any value in human life at all, and if logic and justice mean anything.

Mark R - that's incredible! You've hit the nail on the head! I AM doing a cultural studies PhD! Fear me and my capacity for abstract thought!
Although I'm not overwhelmingly female, I must say. More overwhelmingly male, last time I dropped my dacks.
Do you get overwhelmed by females, Mark? Squawky, opinionated, academic, over-educated ones? Like Audrey and about 50% of my colleges? Is that why you want an objective line between what's okay and what's not okay to do with their bodies? Something decided by an arbitrary, non-judgemental, scientific entity? Who should that be?

And there it becomes sticky. Once you start talking in terms of human life rather than access to abortion you miss the point. Woman are always going to access abortion. This doesn’t necessarily preclude them from having beliefs about human life. And once you start looking at the beliefs of those women, you are labelling them as murderers once and for all.
90,000 a year. That’s a lot of amoral killers out there. Do you believe that?

Mykah – No! The proof is on YOU to prove that it IS human! Is too! Is too! Is too! Stop that first trimester abortion! Take the poor baby AWAY from the killer! Take it all the way home and protect it! Give it booties and love!
What happened? It died? But it was human! Humans can survive outside the womb, can’t they? Why can’t this one? All you had to do was give it a few more months and it would have been fine! It was becoming a human, even though it was utterly reliant on being inside a womb attached by flesh to the mother for another six months.
If potential for humanity = humanity then we must pass laws that regard all love, sex and twinkles of the eye across crowded rooms as potential people and keep a close eye on the women to make sure they follow through every time so that not a single life may be cut down by these murderous feminazis