Obviously,

Seems you are incapable of learning anything other than how to become even more biased and intolerant - Great lifestyle choice.

You show to all here your ignorance and you cannot even realise it when it is pointed out to you and it is right under your nose.

"I could understand it, only in a religious sense, if I tried, if I wanted to! Why would I want to understand this bizarre religious persuasion to only eat a certain meet killed in a certain way. "(sic)

Two small points to note. 'sic' is latin and means 'As is' or as written in the original. It does not mean i think you or your words are sic (readers will form their own opinions)
and; When you ask a question in writing you put a '?' after it! even if it is rhetorical (look it up).

Why would YOU want to understand? As you show so clearly you have not the slightest interest in understanding your 'enemy' the Muslims. And thus you ensure your hatred and ignorance will continue until the day you die.

I TRY to understand people in order that i DON'T hate them - even people as sad as you.

Now... where did i put my Ob voodoo doll and pins?

Oh... if you feel a strange pins and needles feeling in your groin.... don't worry - ok? I'm just doing my bit for world peace and future inter-generational harmony.

Brain Drain

You never give answers to my valid points, you throw labels like “ignorant, racist, racial determinist yadda, yadda, yadda” label flingers don’t have credibility because their out of ideas. You need to answer the points as opposed to fearful slinging of tired labels.

Brain Drain does not answer or give points to my and millions of Australians query’s(views) but throws tired labels as if that’s all his got. You just don’t answer the questions; I answer yours and give mine in return. I could call you a fantasy dreamer, un-naturalist, driving us down the road of a police state, but I refrain because I have good points whereas you go ahead and fling these exhausted labels. I’m guessing you’re just out of ideas and multi-culti positives.

Calling me ignorant means your calling millions of Australians ignorant making you a good mate. How many people that you know have you just called ignorant who’s opinions thought contrast to yours, have just as much if not more weight and meaning.
The truth is I and millions of other Australians are not “ignorant” as you continually spew out like a broken record, you just cant debate properly, whether its your own fault or that theirs just not enough positives of MC.

Brain Drain instead of addressing any of my points above you’ve come up with this...
“TRY to understand people in order that I DON'T hate them - even people as sad as you.” You sir are a man who’s lost his logic, if infact you had any in the first place.

Poster Obviously, Please read my comments before commenting on my comments. I made it clear that I was opposed to multi-legalism. Don’t waste my time.

“What they mustn’t do – and this must never happen – is to stray into the field of criminal matters.” I agree with what QC Butler says. No I don’t usually follow links.

I also think that religion should be kept out of parliament.

I embrace multiculturalism because to not do so is to believe and want a way of life - or a culture - where the other person and group haven’t a right to practice their ways. I will practice my ways regardless of which group controls the government. Even if people think their way of life is superior - creating happiness and equality can never happen if we deny other people the right to certain choices. It will start with immigrants and spread to everyone until making politically correct choices will be forced onto us. Do unto others - the “Golden Rule” -is a cultural more of my culture. Your ideal culture is different to mine so we are different and multicultural.

Recently in the Courier Mail there was an article in which it told about people selling up and moving because of inconsiderate neighbours. This suggests a difference of general community behaviour that people won’t put up with. Sometimes it is cultural where a group (family, organisation or business doesn’t respect the needs of others (peace, quiet and safety) or just an irrational hatred of people who don’t fit in. So cultural differences are not only about ethnicity but how people behave and whether the way of life of others fits in or impacts on others unreasonably. There are plenty of Australians who have no regard for others; likewise immigrants on that personal level usually are just like the rest of us.

I am not going anywhere. And immigrants are welcome here.

Rainer: Overweight kids get taunted -why are you so special?

Ronnie
while I recognize that migrants coming here bring a culture with them, what is wrong with our high commissions and regional representatives making it crystal clear that to come here is to join our society and be willing to embrace our culture ? I mean.. is this a bad thing ? At least people will know what they are in for.

Secondly, why not structure our accepting side of things to this goal ? Given that there will be inevitable cultural clashes between a foreign culture and here, surely it is better to promote unity and assimilation than diversity and alienation ?

This does not have to be a 'hard' faced thing, it should be joyous and good willed. Clearly we will still benefit from the various foods and customs we find attractive in newcomers, but we don't want to lose our own cultural and social identity in the process and I defy anyone to show me a migrant who would wish it any other way, considering how they would feel in their old countries if a shipload of 'whities' rolled up.
There is a difference between accepting migrants, and accepting them with an attitude which does not accept US. To cling to ones own culture, and refuse to adjust to the host seems just a little ethno/culturalcentric and ill mannered to put it mildly. In Anthropological terms this is one of the 3 possible outcomes of culture shock.

1/ Rejection of the new, clinging to the old.
2/ Rejection of the old and 'Going native' with the new.
3/ 'Studied adjustment'.

The last [3]is the best.

SNEEKY.. last post ? :) yes.. that's what's sounded just before everyone goes to sleep..haha... and your victory for MC I can hear snorrrring away.. its gone, sound asleep.. while we Integration warriors battle on.

ronnie, good points in that last post.

BD, "crystal clear that to come here is to join our society and be willing to embrace our culture ?" - and which culture is our culture?

Is it the part of the Aussie culture I'm in which is accepting of others choices so long as they don't do harm to others or the culture that would deny homosexuals a place to live if some fundy did not want them as neighbours?

Is it the culture of Rainers ancestors or a more modern version of it? Is it the aussie culture that says a sunday BBQ with some friends and drinks is about as good as it gets or the aussie culture that enjoyed getting together with thousands of others to listen to Junior Graham some months ago and sing songs in praise of a middle eastern shephard god (something most aussies could not be dragged along to)?

The debate about aussie values goes on and about the only clear winner is that we can't agree on a common set. Maybe our diversity and the diversity of acceptance of that diversity is the common value.

As Ronnie points out it's not just the freedoms of migrants we are protecting, it's our own freedoms.

R0bert

BOAZ_David,
In view of your reply to ronnie peters post and before this thread runs out, I thought I would let you know about information we give to prospective migrants. The only info we give to would be migrants about our culture and society is on DIMA website and takes a bit of digging out. It is very limited and is only given out to successful visa applicants. So vittually the migrants are on their own to find info before they decide to come here. i.e. Before they apply for a visa. Irfan said he thought this was the situation.

I don't consider this to be good enough as some people that hold strong views about some aspects of their culture may decide not to come here if they are aware that these particular aspects are not allowed. e.g. arranged marriages, F G M, incest, oppression of women.

I have made representation to Andrew Robb MP, my local member and the Citizenship Taskforce in relation to drasticly expanding the ammount of info being made available to prospective migrants, including pictures of scantily clad people on a beach and women out without chaperones, and nativity scenes at malls.

Presently I think we tell them we are multicultural and leave it at that.

Some migrants must get a shock to find things that they were not aware of before arriving. I suspect the migrants friends tell them not to worry and carry on just like in the old country. You know that about 50 cases of FGM are done in Sydney each year alone and some girls are sent overseas for FGM and forced marriages.

Time will tell if anything will be acheived, and I think it would be a good start if more info was given to prospective migrants.

I wou;ld like to see more representation in this regard.