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The Forum > Article Comments > After Lebanon: a personal reflection on Israel and Palestine > Comments

After Lebanon: a personal reflection on Israel and Palestine : Comments

By Philip Mendes, published 13/11/2006

There is a huge cultural gulf between Israeli and Palestinian concepts of peace.

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Both Israel and Palestine have the right to exist. But, as long as Islam exists, there will be no peace in the Middle East or, as is now apparent to all but the blind, deaf and dumb, anywhere in the world. For Muslims, Islam is everything, including politics. They want “peace” their way or not at all. The conflict between Palestine and Israel should now be viewed as a precursor to what will happen all over the world as more and more Muslims move into the West.
Posted by Leigh, Monday, 13 November 2006 10:19:19 AM
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Philip,

You said:
“Of course, the two-state solution will never work unless or until the Arab world ends its 58-year-old military, political, trade and intellectual siege of Israel. This siege is not about what Israel has actually done - good or bad - during its existence”

I think you got the causal effect in reverse.
Since the partition of Palestine in 1948, Israel had gradually taken Palestinians land by force and re-distributed it to Jewish settlers. Its too late for credibility talks now unless by some miracle Israel will drive to resolve the Palestinians problem once for all with no more ducking and weaving over words like the famous “land” or “The Land”.

Living in the Middle East for over 2 decades, Arabs and Israelis have few things in common: they have ultra long memory and beliefs are non negotiable.
I don't think its solvable but good theory though!
Posted by Fellow_Human, Monday, 13 November 2006 1:34:52 PM
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Thanks very much for this article. Unfortunately there aren't published a lot of well-thought articles like this one about this very difficult issue. I find it very hard to decide where I stand, but I do like reading intellectual, well-argumented articles about it. One thing I find very difficult to accept though, is the fact that many on the Left side of politics turn a blind eye on the antisemitism and anti-Western attitudes in some muslim circles, attitudes that existed before 1948. To quote British writer Martin Amis in ABC's Lateline last week:

'We must never lose sight of the fact that this is like other movements that we're familiar with, Nazism and Bolshevism. This is an ideology that has freed itself from reason, and you get a huge push when you do that because suddenly everything is possible, and it has freed itself from reason and it is feeding on death.
Now, this is what people find so difficult. It is effortful to come to an understanding of that. Much, much nicer to wallow in rationalist naiveté and say that it is our fault. In England, there were middle class whities walking around during August with signs saying "We are all Hezbollah now .” Well enjoy it, enjoy being Hezbollah while you can, because its leader, Hassan Nasrallah, famously said of the West, "We don't want anything from you, we just want to eliminate you."'

It is also interesting to read the following article:
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=25382

Once again; this is not to silence any criticism of Israel. That criticism is very legitimate. It is just to bring some balance in the general opinion in the more 'serious' press and 'intellectual' circles, because these circles have in my eyes tended too much towards one-sidedness.
Posted by KeesB, Monday, 13 November 2006 2:09:02 PM
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Philip Mendes - "This siege is not about what Israel has actually done - good or bad - during its existence."

If I occupied your land, stole your possessions and killed your family would you simply forgive and forget?

Leigh - "But, as long as Islam exists, there will be no peace in the Middle East or, as is now apparent to all but the blind, deaf and dumb, anywhere in the world."

Who is invading who?

KeesB - "antisemitism and anti-Western attitudes in some muslim circles, attitudes that existed before 1948."

I suggest you read up on your post World War 1 history particularly the Sykes-Picot Agreement of 1916, the Balfour Declaration of 1917 and the Battle of Megiddo in 1918 or go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine and then maybe you won’t have to regurgitate what ABC's Lateline feeds you.
Posted by Chad, Monday, 13 November 2006 3:30:30 PM
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I think the main problem is that many outsiders are not prepared to
accept the concept that the problem between the Israelis and the
Palestinians is indeed unsolvable.

There is no solution. No buts no ifs nothing !

Why is it so ?; well I believe it is because the Arabs believe that the
area has been theirs for some 1500 years and the Jews think it has been
theirs for some 3000 years.

So why should we worry about unsolvable problems.
Posted by Bazz, Monday, 13 November 2006 3:46:09 PM
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Dear Chad.....
Have you heard of Khaiber ? you said:

-'killed your family'
-'occupied your land'
-'stole your posessions'

For Islam/Mohammed add:

-Torture to find treasure.
-'Allowed 'temporary marraige' for the soldiers of captive women (=rape)

would you forgive and forget ?

Todays Jews would be wise to recall the name of one of Hezbollahs missiles "Khaiber2"

The Islam of Mohammed is based on these very ingredients and he was the first to practice them against Jews in the Arabian Peninsula.
(Jewish chief Kanana tortured by mohammed to find the treasure) Then...there is one more. Can you name one (JUST ONE) incident where the modern Jews have killed a palestinian male and taken his wife as THEIR wife, and his children as slaves ? Or Israeli soldiers allowed for 3 days to rape Palestinian women after their men are killed ? This what Mohammed DID to the Khaiber Jews. (source Ibn Ishaq)

PHILIP.... is it we Christians alone (+Leigh+Ben Netanyahu) who understand what is really going on over there ?
For goodness sake... your own pilgrimage of thinking shows how wrong and naive your previous view was.

The question will ALways resolve to "If we gave the Palestinians adequate land and resources, would the conflict dissappear?"
Answer...NO. Why ?

1/ The theological concept of "Islamic Lands"
2/ The spiritual significance to Muslims of Jerusalem.

Thats it.
Everyone wishing to understand the forces at work should read the

1/ Hamas Charter.
2/ Bible. Genesis 12 to end + Exodus, Joshua, Judges, Deuteronomy.
Special focus on Genesis 12 to the end.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Monday, 13 November 2006 5:15:27 PM
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