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The Forum > Article Comments > After Lebanon: a personal reflection on Israel and Palestine > Comments

After Lebanon: a personal reflection on Israel and Palestine : Comments

By Philip Mendes, published 13/11/2006

There is a huge cultural gulf between Israeli and Palestinian concepts of peace.

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MichaelK, my comments about your English were not meant as an insult. The fact is, I sometimes find it difficult to understand. As for Australian attitudes toward non-English speakers, I have no knowledge of or part in this. I’m not Australian.

I disagree with your dismissal of Palestinian Arab identity. More importantly, the people about whom you write disagree. Cultural/ethnic/national identity isn’t a science, and there is no “right answer” somehow objectively determined by history or other factors.

I realize that “American paratroopers” was an attempt to translate the caption, but it was a mistranslation.

As far as I know, the president of Israel was not involved in any decision to permit, encourage, or assist the immigration of Bnei Menashe. Also, I am Orthodox and haven’t heard of any “controversy among orthodoxy” about the community or its immigration to Israel.

Of course every government decision and public policy generates some opposition, but there seems little reason why Orthodox Judaism would not embrace the Bnei Menashe: Orthodox rabbis and organizations were instrumental in encouraging ties between the Bnei Menashe community and Israel; one of the Orthodox Chief Rabbis of Israel recognized the community’s claim of historic ties to Judaism; most members of Bnei Menashe are undergoing formal Orthodox conversion to Judaism, either in India or Israel; and most Bnei Menashe who have immigrated to Israel have settled in Orthodox communities.
Posted by sganot, Friday, 1 December 2006 2:56:28 PM
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It is fine people from round a globe participate in this Australian forum.

Few hours ago I was once again racially abused in Melbourne bus-by a driver. I would say that this not-so-white fellow is not exceptional abuser on this particular service in a country where MATESHIP rules. Maybe, it is funny to hear but as I noticed abuses in local buses usually occur initiated by drivers only and in this case their identity is completely irrelevant – passengers’ appearances are the most, although in my case I am not an Orthodox Jew or any other expressing faith openly.

I understand that meaning of messages sometimes does not reflect simply reader’s mentality that is why the same info comprehended sometimes differently if even provided by professionals worldwide.

What I try to explain, definitions of tasks and issues are extremely important not in the math only, and “Palestinians” to me are people leaving in Palestine of which the Jews are rightful co-inhabitants and the Jewish state constituents.

What is utterly clear and from your post, info reflects sometimes reality very specifically in Internet uniting same-speaking people from the same upbringing from different countries recently, sharing different news from their different countries re-translated in multilingual sites originating even from Israeli as it was a case with URL mentioning “American Paratroopers” not in English.

No offence, but humor is last thing different readers could catch.

SGANOT, I read different info from different sites in different languages from round a glob, and info on Menashem was provided on non-Hebrew Israeli site. Moreover, there are Hasidim in New York very much involved in Indian case, and their organization “The King David Foundation” was at the time-at least 10 years ago- registered NGO.
Posted by MichaelK., Friday, 1 December 2006 10:04:46 PM
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MichaelK, this time I barely understood any of your post. Again, that's not mean as an insult, it's just a fact.

Not-so-white fellow?
Mateship?
Reader’s mentality?
Rightful co-inhabitants?
Uniting same-speaking people from the same upbringing from different countries recently?
URL mentioning “American Paratroopers” not in English?
Humor is last thing different readers could catch?

Also, I am not aware of any New York Hasidic "King David Foundation", or any American Hasidic group active in support of or opposition to the immigration of Bnei Menashe to Israel.
Posted by sganot, Sunday, 3 December 2006 7:05:17 AM
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Well, you, SGANOT, once again highlighted a substantial problem grounded with different mentalities and by itself grounding much miscommunication and hatred in the Middle East particularly: different people understand the same issues differently.

If “mateship” is out of common use somewhere, could you, please, try “Australian Dinkum Dictionary”, and URL mentioned was an address of a non-English-language-written-Israeli-site if opened, from which “American Paratroopers” had been translated. More explanations?

In any case, willingness to understand is a personal problem of the willing to understand, and being in your messages omitted addressing xenophobia as a real core issue underlying too many problems round a globe is probably your, SGANOT, position as understood from context of your posts, shich is the most substantial for this discussion.

"The King David Foundadtion" was established by Indian Jews in NY more than 10 years ago, and since than I have no clue of further substantial develpments of this NGO of which a very goal was helping the Indian Jewry.
Posted by MichaelK., Monday, 4 December 2006 11:57:45 AM
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MichaelK,

1) "American paratroopers" was your mistranslation of "Americansky desant". Paratrooper=desantnik. If you still don't get it, never mind. It isn't important.

2) I don't understand your third paragraph at all. Yes, xenophobia is a real issue, and underlies many problems aound the globe.

3) First you seemed to indicate that the immigration of Bnei Menashe was opposed by, or at least controversial to, Orthodox Jews. When I said that I'm Orthodox, never heard about such a controversy, and it doesn't make sense, you responded that "there are Hasidim in New York very much involved in Indian case" through their "King David Foundation".

Now it turns out to be an organization of Indian Jews (of which I still see no evidence or Internet presense), almost certainly not Hassidic (are there more than a handful of Indian Hassidim in all the world?), and apparently active in support of the Bnei Menashe, who also come from India.

So who are the Orthodox Jews for whom the Bnei Menashe are supposedly "controversial"?

Maybe we should wrap up this discussion, which after all has nothing to do with the "After Lebanon" article.
Posted by sganot, Tuesday, 5 December 2006 12:12:27 AM
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Hi Logic,

Thanks for the correction re Jewish migrants from the middle east. I wasn't aware they made 50% of the population.
Don't worry about 'weakening my argument', facts are facts and I believe we are all seeking truth and justice no matter where it sits.

MichaelK,

The point I was trying to make is the sense of identity around 'citizenship by will'. If Palestinians want to restore their country rather than becoming 'arabs of Israel' then its their choice and we must respect that and help them achieve it. Its hypocricy to say that 'Jews of Palestine' have the right to re-instate Israel but deny the same right to the others.
Posted by Fellow_Human, Tuesday, 5 December 2006 2:13:32 PM
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