“the moderates and progressives of the Islamic community”? There is no such thing. Muslims are all tarred with the same brush. If they are not actually aggressive, then they are making excuses for the aggressive ones.

Muslims will never be satisfied until they have what THEY want. Our weak Prime Minister seems determined that they will get what they want

Mr Khan says it all:

"There are many models and interpretations within Islam, which is why there is bound to be conflict between religious forces over whose model should succeed."

and

What brand of Islam will this institute teach: Sunni, Wahhabi, Shiite, Ahmadi, Alawi or one of the dozens of other schools of thought?

COMMENT:
Of course Mr Khans 'Green' agenda is about Islamophobia and all the other phobia's that the Greens have on their social hit list.

But he underlines one important point here. Next time you are told by some Muslim about the UNITY of Islam etc..... refer them to the above quotes.

But, in understanding the vast majority of Islam, it resolves to just 2 brands. Shia and Sunni. The conflict in Iraq (mainly these 2 groups) goes back all the way to the Abbassid and Ummayad dynasties from which those 'brands' came. Just after the first 4 supposedly rightly guided Caliphs.

Far more important than addressing 'Islamaphobia' or..setting up an Australian version of China's '3 self' government approved and controlled Church model for Muslims, is to provide Australians some insights about how Islam arose, and how its leader/founder acted.

Of even more important and URGency, is the dissemination of knowledge about Radical Islam, and its clearly spoken objective of "To rule the world".

Radical Islamists are working towards "Pure" Islam in 55 countries.
As Walid Shoubat (Former PLO Muslim terrorist) said..if just 10% of them succeed, there would be over 100,000,000 'Jihadists' far more than the Nazis.

Instead of harping at Hilali, and his meat muffups... we should be exposing the ratbag, satanic, false prophet promoting hatred of those who could actually do us serious harm.
Fortunately Fox News is doing just that. "Obsession:The Threat of Radical Islam" is a feature story this month (Yes IIIII know..timing timing timing) about the Doco (yes..I know its done by a Jew).

What it contains, taken from news footage of Arab/Muslim countries is strikingly horrific and would cause chills up every Australian spine.

Continued...

The greatest danger to Australia is of a Muslim community which could be radicalized by those who think nothing of killing voices of dissent.
The best answer to this, is conversion and spiritual liberation. Muslims seeing the truth of Christ and running for their very lives from this oppresive faith and into the arms of a Loving God.
Conversion can only occur when truth is known. Truth about their own founder and truth about Christ.

The law suit by Waleed Aly and company at the ICV was an attempt to stifle truth. Islamic leaders will always try to prevent criticism of their prophet especially.

Exposure of his character and awful behavior will usually result in anonymous death threats from some unknown person "in the community" but we know how real such threats are, with various people like Van Gogh being brutally murdered in Mohammed's name.

The Scholar Muir, (often quoted by Fellow Human) who is very balanced in his treatment of Islam and Mohammed, quoted this. (from Hadith)

Ayesha used to say,- "The Prophet loved three things,- women, scents, and food; he had his heart’s desire of the two first, but not of the last."

He also says:

"He never took revenge excepting where the honour of God was concerned."

So, clearly, insulting God (or his messenger) was a capital offense.
He owned properties, (stolen from Jews) Houses, estates and fruit gardens(from exiled Jews) and thought nothing wrong of this.

Christ Jesus, had no army, no weapons, was killed after only 3 years of wandering, healing, teaching about the true Kingdom of God, and said that kingdom was not 'of this world'. Within 300 yrs this simple Gospel of Salvation and forgiveness through faith in Him, had overtaken the Might of Rome.

Contrast this with the man who "loved women, scents and foods" and who believed that through violence and war the Kingdom of Allah/Islam should be defended and expanded......

Boaz...

I agree with your post in relation to the greatest threat to Australia being a group of radicals willing to kill voices of dissent. I think most (not all) of what we're hearing now is merely a temporary paranoia that will pass and is being fuelled for political purposes, but there are plenty that will disagree with me.

I'd be interested to hear your perspective the recent howard government moves to install chaplains in schools.

Should a government be complicit in the spread of spiritual values? Hasn't christianity operated independently from government for the last four hundred years or so? Do you believe there are problems with government promoting religion, even if it is through a less than direct manner?

I don't ask to spread my particular view, rather, I'm interested in the viewpoint from someone who seems to me to be a devout christian, but open to considering criticisms of the faith.

I think the biggest threat to Australia are people like Danny Nalliah who want the so-calleed Christian-Right to take over the political agenda of this country.

I certainly don't wish to live in a nation where abortion is completely illegal and where we ban important scientific research that could save lives just because of one man's warped interpretation of scriptures.

Here,once again, we have the muslim voice raised in protest at more perceived victimisation.
Is the government going to give 8 million to Hindus, Innuits, Poles,Phillipinos,Scots, Irish ,etc,etc. If not ,why not? We are equal in this country except for muslims who consider they are far above the hoi polloi and should be entitled to benefits not available for others.
And Irfan would rather not live in a country where something upsets his view of things.
Well, we would rather not have people who so arrogantly think the whole world revolves around themselves.
If muslims feel marginalised or unwanted, they should look to their own attitudes and actions.Because that is where the solution to their constant grievances lie.

Saeed is probably right when saying that a lot of the money will end up in the wrong hands. The Islamic communities in ability to deal with extremism was shown with the“cat and meat” fiasco. And one has to ask themselves is giving more money to these people right?
Sure Islam deserves as much support as any other religion does but it has to go to the right people who encourage the Australian way of life and not to the people who have a 14th century mindset.
With regards to getting jobs the best thing these immigrants can do is try and be more Australian. The biggest hurdle those young people who were born hear face is their parents. That is there parents rub it into them that they are Islamic not Australian/Western and this as we know has a big effect on them when they try and interact with other Australians. After all when it comes to jobs 40% is your resume and the other 60% is your personality and your ability to fit into the current culture of the company.
Muslims can give themselves a big leg up by simply attemtpting to be more Australian and less Muslim in all manner of their lives.

I agree with you Irfan that people like Nalliah are idiots but I think it is a feeble attempt on your behalf to try and score a hit on Christian fruit loops by saying
“I certainly don't wish to live in a nation where abortion is completely illegal and where we ban important scientific research that could save lives just because of one man's warped interpretation of scriptures.”

Would you really leave Australia if abortion was completely illegal? It means that much to you?

David I saw the Fox promo on Sunday, thought it was brilliant. Really surprised it was even allowed to air where I am. This stuff needs to be out there. In the end it will be only the media that will bring us (the west) out from our slumber of political correctness (over a barrel, pants around the ankles!) Long live Fox!

Does any one actually know how Muslims come to migrate to Australia or any other non-Muslim country? What reasons do they state for immigration? They can't be refugees. The last thing an honest refugee wants to import is the horror their fleeing. So if their not refugees (if it is agreed that a practicing Muslim can't seek refuge from Islam)and that they have migrated for some other reason. Why is it up to their host societies to provide them with employment and make room for them in government. If there is no work for these people who hate democracy and demand the imposition of sharia, why are they being allowed in to the country? It's quite obvious that Muslims have no intention of standing on their own two feet, freely adopting and ensuring democratic values and fully participating in an ever shrinking world that no longer has a place for fascism or any other type of despotism. It's too bad that they so quickly adopted the mantle of victim to push their Islamic agenda, rather than honestly adopting the values expressed by their new society and nation. Muslims who want to be seen as other than interlopers might best achieve that by integrating, assimilating, and reforming Islam in regards to the national beliefs and the rights and freedoms of the individual and not
expect that the nation will submit to Islam or Muslim dictates of "right behavior" and governance. To submit, submission, surrender, are not valuable concepts of the societies of the western world.

TRTL see my post in the 'chaplains thread mate to answer your question please.

IRFAN... believe it or not...I almost agree with you. I would shudder at the thought of Danny (who I love in the Lord as a brother) having too much input in the political arena.
His ministry should be limited to a prophetic one...

Jesus said:
["You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. 15Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.]

If anything contrary to the Scriptures emerges out of their ministry, and that includes any 'Theocratic' tendency.... I would worry much.

So far, I've not noticed this, but haven't looked at all he publishes.
I do know that the main thrust of his ministry is 'national repentance and spiritual renewal of Australia' and I also know that he would be the first to affrim that this can only come from the heart not the law. The law, can at least prevent the stifling of truth and the Gospel, but it cannot produce belief directly.

I worry far more though, about fearful moderate muslims and fearless radicals who would think nothing of killing dissenters.
Such a mentality simply does not exist in what you term the 'Christian Right'.

The worst 'we' would do, is tighten up immigration and enhance educational policy toward social cohesian, cultural reinforcement, historical awareness, and personal integrity.

If me, I would change the law on citizenship dramatically to provide for exile of the likes of Hilali.

-Praising our enemies... immediate exile to their country.
-Public cries of "death to Australia" would be "execution". (that is a declaration of war) (insanity plea accepted)
-Burning our flag ... "10 yrs to life"

Refer Romans 13 for background_discussion.

The usual list of social issues would surely receive attention. No need to state them here :)

Boaz_David
The last part of your post was a bit extreme don’t you think?
I mean all of the things you stated are acts that would make my stomach turn but your punishments would make it turn even more!
Those are the kinds of punishments that dictators use to rule with an iron fist!

Sure I love this country to bits but we can’t do anything really about the sordid people who are already hear but a selective immigration program could do wonders for the future of this great country.

Easy..yes it was extreme... deliberately so, hopefully to stir some discussion.

Sometimes we have to state something outside the boundaries of our normally accepted range of solutions/punishments to challenge our entrenched and often inherited thinking.

Your restraint in responding is appreciated:)

Good article Saeed,

I guess like there is Islam and Islam-ism, there is secular and secular-ism ...Its the -ism we should watch for always.

Boaz, and ‘Philo’sophical Philo,

Me quoting Muir on a number of occasions does not mean I support everything he said. At the end he is a missionary so his version of truth have boundaries.
Since you are so hot on the truth about the prophet of Islam, here is a 'cadeau' from Deedat about Mohammed (pbuh) in the Bible.

http://www.jamaat.net/muhinbible/muhinbible.html

"Sometimes we have to state something outside the boundaries of our normally accepted range of solutions/punishments to challenge our entrenched and often inherited thinking"
Indeed!
Enjoy the truth about the Bible’s last prophet (just stirring!).

Peace,

I don't know Boaz, debate is good, but don't you think the debate surrounding immigration and Islam is heated enough already? I think it would be best to try and keep the tone down rather than inflame it.

Also, and please don't take this as provocation, I do actually want to hear your answer, I thought that the death penalty was something Christians disagreed with, am I wrong? how is it justified in Christian doctrine?

I ask because I could never reconcile what I thought was an absolute injunction not to kill (except maybe in cases of immideate danger?) and the American religeous right support of Governors notorious for supporting the death penalty.

Easytimes states that we cannot do anything about 'the sordid people who are already here'
Why not? Is this cancer in our society going to be free to kill, rape, bully? Only the total breakdown of law and order will permit that to happen.
I would hope that for the protection of Australians , those 'sordid people' will be well and truelly sorted out and deported right back to the third world places they came from. We owe them nothing but we should have the right to expect them to behave themselves for the privilege of living here.