Hawaiilawyer,
Thank you.You have opened my eyes. I was a sinner.
Now please can you stop blabbering?

God did create a mystery, of own identity. A bit like we all know we need a father to produce us, however if we have never seen our father...but a need in us is there to know who he is and, more importantly, have a meaningful relationship with our father... it is a human condition.

Nobody 'blabbers', but struggles with the above, we all have a 'sense' of our father, but what we see is the physical world and fellow souls in the same struggle. Some souls have fully accepted the material world and at peace with that, others reject god because they sense the price of sins will be due and do not have the strength to face it or do not want the consequence of their own actions. And others are lost in the wilderness while they discover small facets which do not make complete sense...yet...but will when enough is known.

Moses was a lucky man, to know god face to face, but unlucky because he lost the 'mystery' and the joy of discovery, which the child in all of us knows its worth the weight of struggle that was before it....

Sam

Sam,Before blabbering,please read the posts.The issue here being debated here and convincing is that if God is there ,he/she/it is definetely not Jesus/Mohammad/Any Earthy Human God./Moses.

Oh and on the subject of reincarnation. Our current physical life is where we get to correct the mistakes of our past - not the other way around - we keep on 'trying' in new bodies until we get it Right!, gaining credit for good deeds and debt (karma) for bad ones or at least us non-christians do. Sadly, you only get one shot it seems?

We get it Right when we can do as Enoch did and walk with God while on Earth if we so choose. At such point we have control over our own mortality, and with God's will, that of others, such as Lazarus. It should go without saying that Jesus did it Right.

Enoch came before Jesus, I believe - so how could he be free from sin and why should we be different?

Feel free to ask your baptist friend CS if you get stuck.

Oliver,

I could not have put it better myself! 'God' is ALL! I have a problem with the limited understanding men have with that concept and that they insist on Giving God a 'personality' approximating Man's. But if that is all they can understand of God you have to talk to them in terms they comprehend.

TYPO ABOVE: This posit would represesent an alternative explanation to a God BRIDGING the infinite to the finite.

My earlier post, basically means the created universe(s) does not need a creator. The tentative QM explanation is compelling. [but needs to be continuingly test and allow null hyptheses, into the debate.]

Hawaiilawyer:

QM would make no claims to all knowledge, but it would posit an explanation of how the infinite can be made finite, without the need fo reference to divinity. Basically, how something can come nothing. This is an alternative explanation to a God. The God hypothesis can stand, as a degraded heuristic, but it is up to its adherents to prove the supposition. Demostrate its superiority over the alternatives [from science and philosophy.

If you are lawyer then I ask what weight would a Court put on evidence from the hearsay of an Egyptian priest or Faithful to Islam. And the latter's history is fairly well documented. Extending your argument, is beyond the Christian mind [some sects] to conceive of more than one god? [Actually, the Hebrews were oriniginally henotheists, ultimately choosing a Volcano God, as their own.]

Hawaiilawyer and Sells; Answer me this question, please:

How does Zeus exist?

[Sells, you write the Zuesauthor citing the Bible. You are ignored, because attempts by you to introduce the OT/NT are held, out of court. That Ancient Greek author is too fixed to come out of the mountain (earlier reference.].

--cont--

How is "infinity" equivalent to the "nothing" from which something comes?

The action in "came from" is not explained by QM, and that is where God is.

Claims by ancient Egyptian priests that animals, creatures like us, are divine can be tested. Ever see any animals do anything supernatural? I haven't. Cats, jackals, falcons, bulls, deities? They are creatures like us, not creators....

Zeus (Deus + pater) is an Indo-European sky god originally from a shamanistic religion, where the medicine man or shaman climbs the world tree, possibly drugged, "traveling" to heaven in order to bring back information from the "gods" that will help the tribe.

The Indo-Europeans came from the Eurasian steppes, rode and worshipped horses, swords, committed human sacrifice and dismemberment on the theory that the universe could be preserved somehow by repeating in the microsm what they believed the macrocosm (universe) consisted of (the eyes of the sacrificed human equivalent to the sun, etc). Sacrifice a human being, cut him/her up, disperse the parts, and they are the seeds which uphold the very existence of the universe -- without which the universe would crumble (go back to nothingness). A pre-scientific explanation for the existence of the universe, and of human life,one which justified murder, theft... -- violence.

Murder was equated with life, the life of the tribe. A "little" departure by humans from the commandment not to murder....