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The Forum > Article Comments > Disempowered young Muslim men turn toxic > Comments

Disempowered young Muslim men turn toxic : Comments

By Shakira Hussein, published 1/11/2006

The offensive views expressed by Taj Din al-Hilali are all too common in many Muslim families.

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A wonderful article, balanced, intelligent I would be proud if she was my sister.
I know that alot of people with physopathic tendencies join extreme groups as a way of legitimising and giving moral force to their violent nature.
This is probably one of the inevitable outcomes of the convergence of very different cultures. This coming together of cultures is an unstoppable part of our evolution and we must face the challenges that it presents. Although it looks bleak now, I believe the end result will be a much more enlightened world.
This is what we need, a lively vigorous discussion.
Posted by dublin4, Wednesday, 1 November 2006 5:35:15 PM
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"For a long time I had no desire to understand; I still have no desire to forgive.

But understanding is necessary and this is what I came [to do]."

Wow, that was really profound. It shows that to seek to understand a behaviour, you aren't necessarily forgiving it. I'm sure it would have taken a lot of grace to do that in your situation. Good on you.
Posted by YngNLuvnIt, Wednesday, 1 November 2006 5:35:29 PM
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I really like this Forum. I read Shakira's article in The Australian when it was published there and I positively appreciated its thoughtfulness, personal sharing, and sharp relevance to our world today - but I lacked an easy opportunity to feed back to her a "thank you" I think she points to a problem far wider than the recruitment to extreme Islamist organisations. There are many young people who for various reasons experience themselves as excluded from a status and dignity that they think to be their right. They are likely to be on the look out for some peg on which they can hang their grievance and somehow legitimise their protest. In particular Shakira's half brother makes sense of it all and rescues his dignity through a religious-control misogyny. But more broadly we all need to aim for a society where we minimise the numbers of rebels/misfits/disadvantaged people who are ripe for exploitation looking for a cause to explain their misfortune and gain an ascendency.
Posted by Fencepost, Wednesday, 1 November 2006 5:50:23 PM
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Dear Mercurious.. I certainly appreciate that we can agree on something.
That kind of thinking lies behind all that I say, believe it or not.

I highlight various things I see as important, such as a basic incompatability of an Islamic community within a Western one.
Naturally this leads to the obvious question "But what do you want to 'do' about those here" ? Well certainly not herd them off to Nauru or Baxter. But I do advocate strict immigration policy changes, and would urge much more 'interest' to be shown by Asio, and the AFP, to build up trustworthy intelligence networks within these communities.
Why ? well.. apart from all the usual reasons I give, I just this moment saw on TV about a German politician who has received death threats from the Muslim community there for advocating they adjust to Western Values.

So, we have this very predictable cycle wherever Muslim communities exist.
1/ Government makes decisions to assist in community integration.
2/ Radical Muslims take this as a 'threat to Islam' and threaten to kill them.

The one major point I would add, in terms of toughening up our legal framework, is to insulate any person from legal action due to criticising Mohammed. I don't support smartmouth taunts, but I do support solid well sourced information, presented in public.
I totally welcome criticism of Christendom, as history cannot be denied.

Mohammeds example lies at the root of hundreds if not thousands of suicide/Martyrdom acts. (not bombings). (Iraq and other places)
Many many Chechen, Bosnian,Arab and Sudanese and Yemenese went to Falujah to martyr themselves in 'jihad' against the USA.
The ability to expose the character and actions of Mohammed is crucial to destroying the basic driving force behind such martyrdom here.
Will it alienate some in the community ? Undoubtedly. But I contend 'truth' IS a defense, contrary to the ICV legal team claiming it is not.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Wednesday, 1 November 2006 6:33:45 PM
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Oh come now

I've lived in Britain and like Australia they have other ethnicities who've made good, the Hindus and Sikhs being two examples. Over here the Chinese, Vietnamese, Italians and Greeks have made a successful go of things. It's got nothing to do with white racism and everything to do with a failed ideaology.
Posted by CARNIFEX, Wednesday, 1 November 2006 7:20:29 PM
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Actually logic, I think the article is about what motivates members of the minority (in any situation) to join extremist groups or commit violent acts against others. While its couched in examples from Mustafas life, it can be read into the wider community. This is what happens when people feel powerless, particularly when they witness others around them wielding power. Nazi germany was only successful (?) because the leaders were able to play on the oppression of the people and create an "us and them" belief. Members of the KKK are sourced mostly from poor white communities. I dare say members of the IRA, particularly the violent ones were from poor communities. They search for a sense of belonging and meaning and can too often find it in extreme beliefs. Violent action gives them a portal to physically express their frustrations. Whilst I dont condone this, I can recognise the driving factors and have some degree of empathy. Ultimately these people often have little sense of self-worth. On a micro level you can see it in everyday life. Those that lash out at others (whether it be physically or via vicious gossip) ultimately have little self esteem. Maybe this is why as a nation we are urged to be tolerant - to recognise that why these people should be held responsible for their actions, ultimately they are a slave to their lack of belief in themselves.

I cant verify the source, but I do believe that those that sacrifice themselves in the same of islam are promised 17 virgins. I assume that these virgins have lived and died in the belief of Islam (otherwise why would they be in paradise), so this doesnt add up to the assertion that women are less likely to enter paradise. Given these numbers it definately shows that muslim women are far more likely to enter the afterlife than muslim men. Can someone enlighten me though - what happens if muslims are denied entry to paradise? Does Islam have a Hell, or do they just cease to exist? Sorry, I am curious!
Posted by Country Gal, Wednesday, 1 November 2006 7:21:36 PM
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