Way to go, your conditioning is complete, your multicultural, no culture, a single culture, pluralist, Christians, Jews and Muslims. Any way to actually hear from an Australian or in your rush to be everything and no thing has the Australian been eliminated. First generation Muslims can't absorb freedoms and rights and a democratic ideal. Their fighting to hang onto their identity even though they know it led them to destruction. Their religious leaders do not encourage assimilation. Two, three generations from now there may be a moderating of radical Islamic thinking but, not if Muslims insist on being Muslims and not Australians, or French or British or Americans or Canadians, etc. etc..
And of course there will have to be some religious reform. There is some good in Islam but, the evil has to be purged. We shut down those rabid Christians in a hurry when they start on about their either conform or live in hell for eternity rant. So Islam isn't getting much different. Just the victim parade is out in full force. In democratic nations the individual is/are - full stop. Lobbyist weaken democratic rule by advocating the right of the victim over others.
If you can't put your country before yourself, you can best serve your country by living someplace else. Nationalism trumps multiculturalism every time.

ybgirp

Well at least I have one fan in Fellow Human.

What is the subtle difference between Pluralism and Multiculturalism?

We all have a culture and they differ between different groups. I lived in England for a while and then in Switzerland. Each country had a variety of cultures. In England it was based on class and on geographical location. In Switzerland a lot depended on whether you lived in the cities or the mountains. In both countries each group had a different dialect. I resent it when one group tries to dominate the other as I perceive John Howard is trying to do.

I personally doubt that any individual can cut themselves off from their family culture.

I am open to persuasion

CJ Morgan (and then logic)

I'm scared by those posts too, one of which I wrote!

It sounds as though you doubt my analysis of Islam, mabye you've only heard of Karen Armstrong's version of it, where she describes none of the above realities?

Well, I offer my advice. Read the Koran for yourself, but then, read the Hadiths, which are Mohammed's teachings, that his disciples wrote down. However, there are about 12 different people who wrote such stuff down, so I advise you to only read the few that the majority of MAINSTREAM Muslims use themselves, such as Bukhari, and Muslim.

It is in these most revered, widely accepted Hadiths where you will find such teachings.

More importantly, for your own curiosity (if you doubt me) email some Muslim sites and speak to Imam's about such issues. I have some excellent emails I saved from furious Imam's (oh, you have to pretend your Muslim though as they won't even talk to filthy kaffir, i.e, westerners) where they tried to say that Mohammed's marriage to the six year old was because women in Arabia mature earlier, at six!

No joke, this is the sort of twisted attitudes many in Islam have. No wonder Khoemeini, that other revered Muslim from Iran, also had child brides.

Ever heard of condemnation of him by Muslims? Let me know when you do....mate.

LOGIC (by choosing that name you demonstrate that you perhaps have none?, just an insight)

You ask if I want monoculture? Are you serious? Mabye you shouldn't read this because it destroys your pathetic, embarressingly weak argument.

The western world is fluid, we have diversity already, EVERYWHERE, we are diversity, in a word.

Music, art, and a million sub-groups of each (i.e, various forms of music, literature, art, sport) thinkers, philosophers (some who think ridiculously dumb things but we analyse everything is my point)........

....What diversity do bringing third world cultures out on mass (thereby severly reducing their potential for integration) give us?

12 yr olds who sell smack at Cabramatta while Vietnamese adults look on without concern? The first political assassination in our history, with John Newman (hooray for Phoung Ngo, who was only following his culture's political system - murder your rivals - do you doubt this?)

Gun crime, largest Medicare fraud in our history (in 1994, one third of all health professionals in Fairfield area - their educated class!)

I haven't even begun yet with the Muslim community, surely you don't need to be told, do you?

What diversity do they have? Besides variations in Shia, Sunni? Which shoot each other at Iraqi election poll booth in Auburn 2004?

Again, middle-eastern politics there,, hooray for multiculti!

These cultures need diversity, they don't bring it to us.

You're serious aren't you?

GOod grief.

BACK TO FIRST GUY, (CJ MORGAN?)

Oh, those hadiths, which you can get online from many Muslim websites, so I'm only using their own teachings there.

You know what that means, if you think they are horrible, as you said before?

It means you have just denigrated Islam, congratulations.

Feel good about yourself?

Tell me off, all I'm doing is educating people.

I don't blame you though, for when I first heard that Mohammed was what we today would consider a paedophile, I didn't believe it.

I, like most ignorant westerners, wrongly thought Islam was JUST LIKE CHRISTIANITY.

It isn't. When you look into Mohammed and his teachings, you will come away not surprised at all that so many of his followers want to kill you.

Good day. Hope that little reality lesson didn't ruin your state of mind, but better to know the truth than where you were at before isn't it?

I remind you again that if you attack me for my comments you are only transferring your anger at Muslims (who you can't tell off because they have no agency in your eyes perhaps) to me.

Logic... A "culture" is a set of behaviour patterns that force conformity on individuals. Pluralism espouses the value of the individual.
As for christianity being better than Mohammedanism -- get real. The "West" has enjoyed only a brief respite over the last century from the horrors of Christian persecution, thanks to intelligent atheists who managed to create a few secular states. But the forces of Christian repression are on the way back and with them all the inequities they ensure. The rich are getting richer, the poor poorer. Intolerance of all diversity and all dissent is rife. No one dares say they don't believe in god. No politician who says he is an unbeliever will ever get elected to office. Every school in the country is installing religious instruction. if you think Tony Abbot and his ilk have been silenced, think again. if global warming doesnt finish us off, within ten years, abortion will be illegal, as will homosexuality, divorce, fornication, de-facto marriages....

The following events certainly cast a shadow of doubt on the sheik's belief that only wicked infidel females are raped. BTW, isnt Egypt his home country?

Mass sexual assault in downtown Cairo

http://tinyurl.com/yf3uxv

"On the first two days of Eid in Cairo, a mob of hundreds of men swept through downtown attacking and sexually assaulting random girls in an animalistic display that must boggle every mind. Apparently, the utter lack of basic decency, respect for women, or the rule of law was not confined to Ramadan alone - in fact, Ramadan was the only thing suppressing the baser instincts of these men. I feel sick at heart, and may never spend time downtown again, as it seems we women are actively in danger there. Will Cairo one day be like Mogadishu, where every woman is raped before she turns 16?"

The following quotes are from an eye witness:

"While yesterday the attacks were just random, young men now formed human trains that approached a girl quickly and surrounded her completely and began groping parts of her body."

"We were surprised to find a girl in her early twenties who had fainted on the ground, surrounded by a large number of youth who were groping parts of her body and taking off her clothes."

"The crowd did not disperse until the appearance of two girls wearing the Khaliji ebaya (loose outer garment worn by women from the Gulf) walking alone down the street. The young men surrounded them completely and a large number of them pressed against the girls and removed the veils they were wearing, and attempted to remove their ebayas, while 10 and 11 year old boys slipped inside the ebayas from beneath."

[cont.]