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The Forum > Article Comments > Let Muslim women speak for themselves > Comments

Let Muslim women speak for themselves : Comments

By Rayann Bekdache, published 30/10/2006

Australian women in hijab: a place where politics, prejudice and human curiosity converge.

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look guys lets face it, in Western society you can pretty much dress or undress as you please, and fair enough, others may or may not comment accordingly...who cares??
The issue here is that someone, or groups of someones, in fact rather large and surprisingly powerful groups, are acting, very violently, based on how others act, dress and behave...women in particular.
This is the problem and this is why the author of this article is getting some air space, otherwise, really, no one ( in western society that is) would honestly give a damn.
So, you can't have your cake and eat it, if in a particular climate you choose to wear a garment that identifies you with a particularly vocal group at the time you can expect to get some attention.
Posted by tillietee, Monday, 30 October 2006 3:12:10 PM
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Western feminists have hit the wall trying to rationalise their brand of feminism with multiculturalism.

Western feminism is overwhelmingly about women’s antagonistic relationships with men: and ways men subjugate women for their own ends. Men are stereotyped as violent lying rapists who would trick and cheat women to exploit them. Women are seen as innocent, vulnerable victims, hopelessly outgunned in a ‘class’ war waged ruthlessly by the ‘patriarchy’ of men and boys.

Western feminists are livid at the intransigence of feminists from other cultures not knuckling down to their brand of feminism. Sure, ego is at risk, however the threat to Australian (Western) feminists is that direct and indirect public funding for the feminist industry could dry up. There are thousands of careers and research grants built up over forty years at risk.

No wonder Western feminists are feeling threatened, especially those who enjoy sinecures in academia and the federal public service.

Gender feminism in particular is abhorrent to other cultures, where their feminists do not share the same obsession with the struggle between men and women. So the old favourite conversation starters, such as single parenting, career, lesbian masculinity, domestic violence, divorce, child support and prostitution are not working as well as expected to stir up righteous indignation.

It is also a fact that many migrant women are used to real struggles such as holding a family together in a war zone or working to make ends meet on a subsistence farm. They could be excused for not wanting to be portrayed as helpless victims.

It is interesting reading the patronising responses of Western (fundamentalist?) feminists as they talk down to Eastern feminists:

Eastern feminist “Excuse me, you may be drawing some wrong conclusions about me by looking only at my clothing”.

Western feminist, “You can talk?! Well that is a good start, now tell me, some bl**p of a man made you dress like that, right?”
Posted by Cornflower, Monday, 30 October 2006 4:39:31 PM
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Cornflower, no offence but I don't think you know too much about "Western feminism" - I put it in quotes as there are many schools of thought within that label.

If anything "western feminists" have a much more positive view of men than many fundie religious zealots, men's rights activists and the rest of their ilk who profit off the subjegation of women in all cultures. Feminists see men as having agency and the ability of self control, whereas those mentioned above tend more towards the idea that men are inherently abusive wife-bashing rapists and should just be able to be without the obstruction of those pesky feminazis. No, feminists think of men as actually having humanity and those who are cruel and abusive as being socialised by a society that puts too much importance on proving 'manhood' and masculinity and heterosexuality through violence or blokey-manliness at the expense of both men and women.

Feminists don't hate men. You are creating a straw feminist, a figure that doesn't exist and you are playing on an old stereotype. Feminism is about balance, not about women taking over the world because we hate men.

There has been some criticism of western feminists preoccupation with the veil as a symbol of oppression whilst ignoring the very real problems that women in developing countries face (i.e the veil is the least of their problems) that's a fair enough criticism and one that "Western feminists" reflect on and debate within their own ranks. So stop being so goddam obnoxious- you're trading on a fallacy.
Posted by Albs, Monday, 30 October 2006 4:59:32 PM
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Dear sister,

I have nothing but respect for you. I am least bothered what you wear viz. hijab/jijab/veil etc.

However, when I found the reason for wearing such things, which the sheik and many islamic scholars reiterated, I have no respect for the veil.

Do you know sheik once said:

"The two cheapest things in Australia are the flesh of a woman and the meat of a pig," .

And he compares white women (or women in general) to meat. He says all muslim men are like cats.

If uncovered meat (women without veils exposing legs/hands/faces) are kept outside (walking on road, travelling in train/bus, in beach)
cats (muslim men) will eat (rape) meat (women esp. white women). So, it's the meat's fault.

This statement was established again and again by many muslim rapists; when they were questioned in courts, they say these "white-women" deserve rape for not wearing veils.

Go.. figure..
Posted by tit_for_tat, Monday, 30 October 2006 6:38:18 PM
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I know this sounds simplistic in a way, it is simplistic! Sometimes I just wonder why we don't simply let people be.

There is so much judgement and generalisation toward Islam. There are many beautiful and terrible things about it, like the veil. It can be used in a sacred or oppressive way. But please lets not assume anything!

Once I asked a muslim friend of mine why muslim women wore the veil. She explained to me that in her family, it was a choice. Her mother and eldest sister wore it, she did not nor did her other older sister and nor did her baby sister.

She continued to explain that her eldest sister chose to wear the veil as an act of LOVE to her husband. It was her gift to him to spare her beauty for his eyes and the eyes of God.

Doesn't it make the notion that Australian muslim women are all oppressed seem ignorant and childish?

Besides, I wonder what business it is of mine whether someone wears the hijab, whether it is a choice or not? This is a matter of culture and anothers culture is none of my business.

We do live in a free society - there is plenty of support within our lovely society to protect peoples rights no matter what their religion is.

So why do we not just leave Australian muslims alone and butt out? Is it really our place to impose our values in a cultural context? Remember, we are already in a free society and thank god that leaves room for differences. Surely muslims, free or oppressed will figure out their own internal problems sociologically in there own time without us causing such a fuss about it.

I do deeply value freedom and tolerance. I've never known otherwise. And I do question these crusades to change cultures and nations we really know nothing about.
Posted by adhara, Monday, 30 October 2006 6:40:53 PM
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....and behold, God did look down upon ugly swarthy woman and declare..."holy crap, get a bag on yer 'ead NOW"
Yeah baby!
Posted by trueaussie, Tuesday, 31 October 2006 2:01:59 AM
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