Interesting debate. But the arguments look a tad familiar.

For anyone interested in the US public transport debate check out
The Centre for Transportation Excellence site at -

http://www.cfte.org/critics/who.asp

This provides an excellent guide to the arguments presented by anti transit critics (Neocons/Neoliberals et al) and their "impact" on the general public transport debate - its all there for all to see.

Enjoy !

PK – lunacy did not end with the fall of Berlin Wall

Logic “You are so egotistical and yet you mount an attempt at argument that would fail a year 12 student.”

My ego, maybe I have a lot to proud of. You just does not know but an “arrogant elitist”, would jump to such a conclusion.

I have the same voting rights as you and will continue to exercise them in the interests of all individuals, you included.

Bobalot “There are people like these everyday, social workers, churchmen, etc.”

It was you who chose “Nelson Mandela” to make the point I was responding to.

”There are people like these everyday, social workers, churchmen, etc. Not as famous, but whose altruism there is no doubt. Who contribute everyday to make a better society. They do not operate completely out of self interest and individualism”

Better "society" by helping other “individuals”.

The problem with this little piece of self righteous twaddle is, those who choose to be altruistic are exercising the same individuality as someone who chooses not to. It just suits bobalot’s personal political agenda to applaud them at this moment and to presume that some one who pursues a political values set different to bobalots value set, is non-altruistic and therefore undeserving of making choices for themselves.

Bobalot you are a closet dictator who demands conformity to you singular will. Please stay out of politics, you are better left in the closet.

As for “How can a business man be free to safely sell his goods if society as a whole has not agreed on laws?”

Think on this bobalot, People were trading goods well before laws were invented and they did it freely, with amicable benefits to both. That is what trade is about, free buyer and free seller, not the laws which govern trade but the trade itself.

“suppressed for the good of society”
OLO words limits. But – I repeat remove the individual and society is non-existent. Society does not make decisions, provide demand for or supply products, individual people do.

Your fretful whine is answered.

Col

Stop being a pompous egotistical clown and we will be able to debate with you.

All that we know about you is that you consider yourself a professional and exceptional at what you do. What are your qualifications? What is it that you do that you consider yourself so good at?

You appear to criticise public transport based only on your perceptions of the performance of London Transport. You seem to have no experience with other excellent government systems such as Zürich, the Eusko Tren, Hong Kong, Singapore, Basel etc. You have the very unscholarly unprofessional habit of generalizing and dismissing expert evidence without even letting us know what expertise you may have.

Logic, so I am a pompous and egotistic clown?

And just what do you suggest we should call you?

You are “labelling” me Logic.

I could do the same with you but will content myself with suggesting, your “emotions” are getting the better of you and out running your “logic”, Logic.

As for qualifications, do some research, I have alluded to my professional background enough in past posts, why not get off your butt and go do some reading rather than expect me to pander to your indolent whims.

London Public Transport was a disaster when I lived there. Dallas (Texas) was just introducing the DART when I lived there but I never had need to use it, so cannot comment on its merits or otherwise.

Melbourne Public Transport is as big a basket case of incompetent and skewed culture that was London. Sydney is no different.

As for Zurich, Singapore etc. I would not comment on cities in which I have not lived, You only get to know the merits of a system by using it, Logic, not by pretending are or you know someone who was once given a good feed by the dept of transport of some obscure metropolis or by reading dog eared proipaganda of the travel pamphlets.

So, based on my experience of the public transport networks I have known, they are all crap.

Are you suggesting, based on your experience of systems in cities you might not have lived for any meaningful period of time that we should assume they are faultless?

Of so, you are relying and indulging our credulity and your credibility just too much.

Col Rouge - 'Lunacy did not end with the fall of the Berlin Wall'. Indeed not. Neither did it end with the demise of Thatcher and the decline in the supremacy of free market thinking. It's well and truly alive in the attitudes of the global warming deniers, in those that refuse to change their over-consuming and polluting ways, the future eaters. That's people like you, Col.

PK “in those that refuse to change their over-consuming and polluting ways, the future eaters. That's people like you, Col.”

Ah they used to say patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel

Now, “couch environmentalism” is.

PK
I would suggest
Brazilians and Malaysians who cut down rain forests, increasing net carbon emissions by removing carbon absorbing trees from the planet are “future eaters”.
Third world breeders with more than 2 children are “future eaters”.
People who contribute to reducing child mortality in third world countries, without first finding a solution to population growth are “future eaters”.
Indian and Chinese industrialists using inefficient diesel engines and sulphurous fuels to produce electricity are future eaters.

I have repeatedly resisted requests from one of my neighbours to cut down some of my trees
(because they overshadow her back yard and washing line in winter).

I realize you did not know that but you simply jump to conclusions and make your simplistic assumptions and cast your small minded invective around to suit your own immature, uncouth and judgmentalist agenda.

PK do not assume, because you lack the maturity to deal with a conflicting opinion, that you have the monopoly on virtue.
You know nothing about me.
Get an education before you criticize others or be seen as a small minded and bigoted prat.

I suggest you grow up and learn from someone who (probably) has the benefit of a couple of decades of experience over you on which to draw and can smell a tosser at one hundred paces.

Thatcher did more for human and economic development than you could ever hope to. I suggest you learn to respect others more, because you are patently incapable of grasping the subtleties of national economics. Leave what you cannot understand to those who can.

The “regulated economy” has been tried and proven a complete failure, ask any East German, Hungarian, Ukrainian who is older than you and remembers the before and after of the Berlin wall. I doubt you even know why it was built