col

"As a “wild guess” I reckon I am right and you are, once again proved a self appointed “EXPERT” who got it WRONG."
I remember a saying about a pot and kettle.

"You are so “all knowing”, put up a suggestion and I will shred it."
QED

“The total catchment areas in these places is similar in size to Melbourne” How do I know? I have been there and worked there. You have only looked up a map. Much of these smaller European conurbations contain a network of towns and villages connected by roads and railway networks. People live in one town and work in another.

"The blind arrogance which entitles you to believe you can tell me what sort of car I am allowed to drive?"
I never told you what car you were allowed to drive. I just gave an opinion on status cars. I don't frankly give a damn about your car.

"Social conditions vary according to the state of national development. If you want to live in a low impact society, go find a tree and enjoy your career as a below subsistence farmer. Certainly one benefit, you will not have access to the internet."
Please explain how this has any connection to anything I have written. Could you do it without insulting language. I am curious. I have looked at your response to other isues.

Well you said it.

Col
Remains the question: Why are both Labor and Liberal parties promising to buy back the rail system?

I’m still of the opinion that it’s a govt. responsibility to serve the taxpayers by providing a good rail system as a way to reduce pollution. We can no longer afford to exploit non-renewable sources, third world countries, decimate old wood forests, pollute our towns and cities and choke our waterways. You could also see it as a general health issue as well as an environment issue.

We can no longer continue ‘business as usual’ simply because we personally benefit.

You seem to focus only on your own convenience and have no long-term vision for your fellow human beings, not even for the wellbeing of your children and grandchildren- such is your obsession with your personal fortune.

Is population control your only answer to reducing car emissions?

“Let them eat cake” has been updated to: ”Let them drive cars”.

Logic
“Much of these smaller European conurbations contain a network of towns and villages connected by roads and railway networks. People live in one town and work in another.”
You’re RIGHT about that; it’s the same in The Netherlands. Many people live in one town/city and travel to another (e.g. from Amsterdam to The Hague). It’s one big network.

Celivia

I guess you are from the Netherlands. I remember travelling in that country it's a wonderful place and I like the people.

I think we have to ignore Col. It's not worth the effort. Let him indulge himself in his own self importance in his Bentley. I would hate to have to pay the repair bills.

Alan Moran is a bigger problem because some governments actually believe him. I tried in a conference to point out to him his mistakes and misconceptions as did others. He won't listen, he gets paid too well by telling rich and conservative people what they want to hear.

Thanks, Logic

Yes, I am from the Netherlands (Amsterdam). I’m glad you had a good time there!

Indeed, it’s time to leave this debate- it's not much fun being right all the time ;+)

Interesting what you say about Moran. It appears that money can’t buy more brains.
Is Moran telling people that once more people have more money they will be able to look after the environment? I suppose until that day comes we can just keep on destroying it.

That, to some people, as we have seen, makes sense!

Some further thoughts, after spending the last week in Melbourne using trains and trams:

* PT should be subsidised because in choosing to subject myself to the often crowded and unpleasant conditions of public transport (other people's ipods too loud, body odour, having to stand for thirty minutes pushed up against random strangers) I am directly INCREASING the value of the experience of those who choose to drive by decreasing the traffic and pressure on the roads they are using.

* Consider the fifty people on an average tram in peak hour - if each of those people used a car to travel to work, think of the increase in traffic and travel times for all road users.

* Essentially, public transport users are increasing the pleasure road users are able to derive from their choice of transport.

* Thus, I feel public transport users should be rewarded for their choices which directly improve the outcomes for road users, through an increase in quality and availability of public transport - a few more cleaners, conducters, and security personel would go a long way towards improving the quality of experiance for PT users.

i note a few points that concern me:

1- In regard to the 'smelly fellow passenger' comments: what is wrong with interacting with your fellow species? do we really want a sterile life where we can interact with other humans through television, email, car radio etc? the biggest leaps in cultural/social/political (etc) advancement seem to come from individuals immersed in a culture (think of the scholars, artists and free thinkers of Athens, Rome and in more recent times London, New York (excuse my Westerners perspective)) whether that culture at times smells, confronts or delights.

2- The automobile as we know it is doomed. Our host earth cannot sustain this invention in its current form and our increasing use of it. i have recently heard people complain about last years 'ridiculous' petrol prices. I believe they are too cheap. We are scarring our planet irreversably, and hocking it off at a dollar or 2 a litre. Will we stand in stupified shock when an event of catastrophic and unpredicatable proportions leaves us to a forced cold turkey withdrawal from our automobile addiction? or act on the blindingly predictable before it is too late (the point may have already passed). It is NOT our right to drive where we want, we deserve no more than the two legs we were given... however we have extended ourselves a privilege that is being abused to the point of unsustainability. Maybe not now, or tommorow, but certainly within the next 100 years. What legacy will we leave?