Immoral? Moi?

HL, thanks,

‘seems to me that Jesus said don't be of this world. Be in it, but not of it….’

From all you have written it seems to me you are reading between the lines, not even paraphrasing Jesus. That can be a very tricky road to travel. Exercise extreme caution. You cannot say what Jesus did not say because you have never been privy to all that he did say – the Bible is sadly incomplete.

Mjpb

If you can live with your position on GW so can I. I believe he is doing more of the devil’s work than he is of Christ’s tho’ and am prepared to make my case whereever, whenever.

As for where I get my quotes: I own two Bibles, and I have the on-line parallel bible web page on my PC favourites and refer to these frequently (last 15 years). I do not give my power to another in this issue. I communicate with ‘God’ one-to-one, through reading and meditation only.

I have ‘missed it’ (the way HL describes) that’s why I asked for quotes. Each of us interprets things according to their collected wisdom. I have not collected what HL seems to have on this point (and a few others it appears) so I wanted to see why he/she said what they said based upon Jesus’s words. I don’t consider Jesus a Hippy (Jesus might, but I don’t see any need).

‘Elsewhere’, is wherever I find reasonably reliable (consistent with my heart’s knowledge) sources. A non-mainstream one is the works of Edmund Bordeaux Szekely who has translated the Dead Sea Scrolls found at Q’um ran. I find his works most enlightening.

As you may know, what we refer to as the Bible today owes it’s form to the Roman Catholic Church (the same Romans who crucified Christ), and was not ‘formalised’ (edited) until the 4th century after his death on the cross. Those who preach only from the Bible might speak truly but they do not possess all of Jesus’ wisdom, only that they have been allowed to see.
(cont).

The words of Jesus contained therein are true, but I believe the Whole Truth was covered up by Roman deceivers for purposes best known to them (and perhaps one ‘other’). The words are definitely not the only ones Jesus ever uttered yet many today believe that the Bible contains the only (true) record of Jesus. There are more than just 4 Gospels. I do not believe that only the 4 comprise the true words He spoke. Much of what he spoke was ‘immoral’ according to christian church founders and has been hidden from the ‘official’ record.

I do not ‘give’ power to abuse me (or anyone) to ANYONE - I will fight for the right of ALL to be free of corruption and deceit, as I would wish they do for me. At times I might be misled by carefully contrived deceit as anyone of us can, but by speaking out my mind and listening to dissent I try to determine the Truth (put all things to the test - 1 Thessalonians 5:21) I believe blind faith in Dogma to be very dangerous.

My aim is not to remove faith but to establish a direct link from where it resides (within each of us) to where it truly belongs and to encourage people to find it personally rather than be told how to find it and what to do to ensure it and ‘everlasting life’ by those who profit from it. (Why is the Vatican possessor of vast earthly wealth? Do they truly follow their Lord Jesus? Or another lord?)

Am I UnChristian? I see a great distinction between Christ and christianity). I profess to being unchristian (and unmuslim). I believe in Christ and ‘He’ who sent Him. The same who is within us all if we are not afraid to truly look. Seek and ye shall find.

I criticise the hypocrisy, deceit and hidden agenda of churches and ‘leaders’ and encourage all to open their eyes and ears and hearts and return worship to whom it belongs and where it belongs. Man’s church has no part in my Faith.

The Jesus of the scrolls found at Qumran is not the Jesus of the Bible.

There is a great chasm of difference between God and man, according to the Bible. According to almost all of the add-to-the Bible religions,
man is God or can be.

To say that man is or can be God hints that there is no such thing as sin. If there is no sin, then man is perfect, or can be. If there is no sin, there is nothing to repent of (to change). If there is no sin, death is not the consequence of sinning, since there is no sin.

Everything in the Qumran scrolls contradicts the Bible.

Satan is the one who sought to be God, and he seeks to make individuals in his own image, seeking to be God. That is not a possibility.

Studying God and his ways in the Bible, this is easy to see. We can't turn water into wine. We can't control molecules like the creator of the universe can. Neither do we love our neighbor as ourselves.

God however, loves us, warts and all. This does not mean, however, that he is going to make that decision for us, that we must make, to change our ways. It does not mean that anything we say, do or believe is "okay."

It is not okay to contradict the Bible. There are consequences. It is not okay to add to it. The Bible has a specific message, for a specific purpose. So that man can realize who he is relative to who God is, and who he is not relative to God. Once man can see that, he knows that he is not God and can never be. And then he knows whose help he needs.

There is a problem with mankind, with the nature of man. To say that man can be God is to be in denial about that nature, to confuse man with God.

Google "Charles Stanley" on the subject of God's ways.

Braindrain

"I believe he is doing more of the devil’s work than he is of Christ’s tho’ and am prepared to make my case whereever, whenever."

I'm happy to listen to your case. If your case is lacking would you acknowledge that you would be doing the devil's work?

"... Bible today owes it’s form to the Roman Catholic Church (the same Romans who crucified Christ), and was not ‘formalised’ (edited) until the 4th century after his death on the cross. Those who preach only from the Bible might speak truly but they do not possess all of Jesus’ wisdom, only that they have been allowed to see."

By the fourth century the Romans who crucified Christ were long dead. Romans involved in compiling (not editing) the Bible were a subset of pious Christians from around the world. Constantine converted and stopped the Christian persecution by Romans.

Why would Jesus set up a Church, bless it with His Holy Spirit and then let it fall apart in the 4th Century by allowing something to happen that would mean that almost any non-conspiracy theorist Christian would be led into error? Does that make sense to you? (1 Thessalonians 5:21)

"The words of Jesus contained therein are true."

Then you believe that the Church is the bullwark of truth not Dan Brown so wouldn't it make sense that it would have protected the truth not fiddle with it in the 4th Century? (1 Tim 3:15)

"Much of what he spoke was ‘immoral’ according to christian church founders and has been hidden from the ‘official’ record."

See above comments with Thess reference.

"I criticise the hypocrisy, deceit and hidden agenda of churches and ‘leaders’ and encourage all to open their eyes and ears and hearts and return worship to whom it belongs and where it belongs. Man’s church has no part in my Faith."

It isn't hidden. It is just myth. Jesus set up a Church for humans. It is integral to the faith. It keeps us grounded in the faith. Without the Church people get all manner of unique ideas.

Mjpb and HL, (we are getting way off-post Perhaps another discussion needs to be started if you feel so strongly? )

Part 1 of 3

I feel sorry for you

You have allowed the corruption of the Holy Word to blind you to TRUTH and argue correctly in your own minds but falsely in the way of man, Not of Jesus.

Like Satan you can quote from the Bible (Man’s work, overriding God’s) Your motives may be pure but your logic upon which those motives are based is false. That is the reason for my sorrow.

I feel it possible you might feel a similar argument in my case. It is doubtful I will change your set minds.

The words of Jesus in the Bible have been translated from Aramaic, firstly into Hebrew/Greek and into english today, by many, possibly devout christians, but as we cannot ask them their motives it is impossible to be sure of their convictions. Anyone who tries to read Chinese translated into English by Google will quickly understand that translation of the words is sometimes difficult but of the actual meaning is Infinitely harder. As to which works were allowed in and which denied to most of the christian world it was the very highest of the Elite who decided that – it was not done by ‘the people’ in committee. It has been polluted.

‘Nothing shall be added to or taken from’ is a quote from, and applies to, Revelation only – the last book of 56. Much has been taken from and not included where it should.

‘Everything in the Q’um ran scrolls contradicts the Bible’?? Man, even for a lawyer, that is just too puerilely stupid to even bother showing just how false it is, Do some research ! How can you possibly expect to be taken seriously after that comment?

The 'Bible' was compiled and EDITED for 2000 years before the 4th cent. Much more was included than has been finally left in (editing, leaving out, omitting, Hidden)

Part 2 of 3

Rome adopted christianity as it’s religion after almost 800 years of homage to Roman Gods and growing secularism and compteting religions within it’s empire. It did so at it’s Emperor’s decree to try to ensure he was able to stay in power. It was a compromise and the Bible has been compromised by the same forces that led to the crucifixion. (and yes I know full well that Jesus chose to die on the cross and therefore could not have been ‘betrayed’ by Judas. Judas was part of God’s plan, not Satan’s. Jesus HAD to die before he could claim power over life and death.

You trust other’s words for the denial of the Scrolls – not your own reading of the translations and declare falsely that the Jesus in them is not one and the same. Mr Szekely is in no doubt and just one of his quotations is of Jesus casting out the legion and turning them into swine. Only the Son of man had the power and faith in God to do that at the time.

I tell you – forget, if you are able, all you have been told by minds not your own and listen to the truth with your own heart and mind and eyes and ears be not corrupted by any man. Seek the Truth in ALL things. And prove those that lie only for yourself. Using true logic and faith for guidance.

There is a Massive chasm between God and man but God created man out of his own works and from his own being with the intention of establishing a link between them that cannot ever be broken (even by death) God exists within us all, it is up to us to chose to accept him or deny him in our mind. Our soul can never deny God because it comes from the same source and comprises an infinitesimally small part of God.