Wobbles, I missed your earlier post.

Japanese soldiers did land in the Northern Territory where they were fought by gun and fist fight by local military and farmers and maybe a few crocs. Japanese soldiers were found lost in far northern Western Australia by Aboriginal tribes who notified the authorities.

Out the Riverina of New South Wales, locals spotted small lines of Japanese soldiers walking across farming land.

In Victoria, Japanese Navy sunk both Australian and American vessels. This one comes from the mouths of those serving there but the governments refuses to allow this to be taught.

Spider,

The information I used came from one of the papers presented during a "Remembering 1942" conference held at the Australian War Memorial, by it's chief historian Dr Peter Stanley.

http://www.awm.gov.au/events/conference/2002/index.htm

It caused a minor scandal at the time and I heard the author interviewed at length on the ABC. Despite challenges from callers, he held his ground very well indeed. There were also many other points raised that don't appear in the conference paper.
I haven't heard anything about it in the media since.

I only mentioned this in response to a remark by Arjay and felt that perhaps we weren't "saved" by the USA as much as we think we were, so why are we paying off an eternal debt?

I have leaned over the years that much of what we are taught is coloured and customised for contemporary purposes and sometimes just plain wrong.

Now it's becoming more apparent that the WMD factors that led us into the Iraq war weren't due to "bad intelligence" but were the result of a deliberate campaign of misinformation from within the US Administration.

As much as it pains me to quote from him - Hitler was right when he said people would accept a big lie - no matter how outrageous - more easily than a lot of little lies.

When modern politicians do this, not only do we accept it but we reward their behaviour by re-electing them.

Hey wobbles and anyone else who cares about things not being quite as they appear.

First an opinion on why they may do it-

http://www.geocities.com/hal9000report/hal71.html

Now as an example - something about what was planned for Cuba back in 1962 (Actual declassified intelligence documents)

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/

and some more background (from a reputable source) from 2002 that make todays events seem a little different.

The last paragraph can apply to our own Government as well.

http://www.sundayherald.com/27735

Do your own research - particularly on PNAC and then look at whats happened in the world since.

Dear Rache
you make some very good and accurate points. I've read some of the links, and found this to be particularly of interest.

"Such a plan (the intervention in Cuba) would enable the logical build up of incidents, to be combined with seeminly unrelated events to camouflage the ultimate objective and create the neccessary impression of Cuban rashness and irresponsibility on a large scale"

Clearly the US government is always planning for the security of its position, by extending its control over areas it perceives as a threat.

OH....MY....GOD.... SHOCK HORROR :)

The main problem with your highlighting this information, is that you represent it as something apparently unique to the USA.

Would you be equally shocked or dismayed if such plans were in existence in EVERY major government/state in the world today concerning the same types of issues. ? i.e. National Security and Expansion of Influence.

Shake shake.. poke poke...Wakey wakey (all of us)

I find myself discouraged at times at the apparent naivity of Australians. (or the deliberate selective ignorance, which would be worse)

The WORLD is only stable due to a balance of all these competing pressures.

Does anybody doubt that China has a plan to take control of every major South East Asian country, including Indonesia ? All these countries have MASSIVE Chinese ethnic populations and they control most of the economic activity ALREADY.

A comparable document in the Chinese intelligence would read like this:

"IN ORDER to justify military intervention in Country A, B, C we must create the impression of ethnic Chinese being harrased, ill treated and attacked"

Such a plan would likely include ways of FERMENTING such racial strife to justify the plan.

What holds it back ? Simple.... the PNAC...and the Nukes contained therein.
I already speak English, Chinese is tonal and hard. Given the choice of PNAC and PNCC (Chinese version of PNAC) I'd prefer the American.

BD,
I think you are missing the point here. What is evident in the Northwoods document is the fact that the USA would willingly kill innocent people (including it's own citizens) and lie to the world to achieve its objective of fermenting a war for domestic political and economic purposes.
Cuba was no threat to the USA in 1963. This was retaliation for the bloody nose it got after the Bay of Pigs fiasco.
Years later the USA invaded Granada on the same false premise and got away with it.
Now its in Iraq and dragged us along with it to kill people for the same phoney purposes.

Before you dismiss it, have a SERIOUS look at the PNAC documents and their real agenda.
I don't doubt that other countries use false-flag incidents but remember that we are talking about the God appointed "model of democracy" and ruler of the free world.

Behind the mask of decency there is more than a hint of evil and they are no better than most of the legitimate governments they have overthrown. All they are interested in is creating more markets for themselves and consolidating their stranglehold on the world economy and will lie and kill to achieve it without compunction.

Your China reference is also interesting, considering that the real reason behind the invasion of Afghanistan (planned years before 911) was to complete the Unacol oil pipeline and keep China from building its own pipeline from the Caspian. The US wants to control China (and the rest of the world) through its access to these resources. Remember the missile that "accidentally" hit the Chinese embassy in the Balkans during the Kosovo war? A warning shot to make them rethink their arrangement with Albania.

The US are genuinely scared of China's potential economic power and are using a preemptive strike mentality to keep it from growing too fast. Nevertheless they are in serious financial hock to the Chinese through their deficit economy.

We are now complicit in all this. Ignorance will be no excuse when the whole truth finally comes out.

Part One

It seems much is being hidden about the real state of things in Iraq, especially as certain branches of the Coptic-style Christian churches whom though having obviously got on with the Muslims have now been forced to leave. Social and political philosophers are really beginning to wonder?

Below is a brief on a deep look at the American socio-political psyche, by Dr Denis Kenny, former tutor at Harvard and Fordham universities

The United States of America has long been regarded as the most generously endowed piece of real estate on the face of this planet. It has inherited from Mother Nature, and appopriated from the Indian nations, an immense wealth of natural resources. It is the first nation in history, moreover, officially to promise its citizens a basic right to the pursuit of happiness, a promise unprecedented in the annals of previous social orders.

Why, then, since the close of the 19th century, and the closing decades of the 20th century, has the US killed and continued to kill men, women and children, and to hunger for, and plunder the resources of nearly every peoples on this planet? Why, as many US patriots have asked over the last two hundred years, have not US governments remained contentedly within their borders and not endlessly wrangled with the less endowed nations of this world?

(Maybe colonial Pax Britannica could have been accused of the same thing, Anglophonic Americana having only inherited from the Brits?)

According to Dr Kenny, perhaps more than any other culture or nation, the US is a product of a complex, configuration of memetic influences - and the role they have played in the shifting sagas of US foreign policy.

The Puritans of New England were the first to encase within a political framework not only a deep commitment to success in this world, but that such an achievement was an assurance of religous salvation.

Further, unlike the secularising tendencies of European culture, the Americans have periodically engaged in religous revivals to maintain the religous spirit of the first settlers