"The most 'Christian' thing we can do, is guarantee a place free of social/cultural conflict, allowing freedom of speech, freedom of association, and criticism. The one thing we cannot do as Christians, is place our faith in peoples hearts."

In the context of Greg Barn's article, where does that leave us? It leaves us reliant upon the law to keep those in power in check. Which plainly isn't working. Without the rule of law, how can anyone assume freedom of speech, association etc? Already, either of us can be arrested on the suspicion a relative might be engaging in terror-related activities, kept incommunicado for a number of days, then prevented from talking about it altogether afterward.

DB et all you're quite prepared to see others suffer in the name of spurious justice, as long as it doesn't affect you personally.

Coach "Islam is not a peaceful religion. It has a definite mandate from Allah their god to invade and govern the entire world."

Can anyone here see a parallel with a particular current world leader, self-proclaimed to be ordained by god to lead the world towards democracy - via firepower ?

Amen Spider

Dear Bennie

Your question about 'parallels' is fair and reasonable. The answer though might require some relfection.

Look back through history. Start though at WW2. Hitler and Axis verses Allies and Churchill/Truman etc.. would you draw parallels simply because one used violence against the other to rid it of a horrific regime hell bent on our enslavement ?

No.. I doubt you would. We have to be honest enough to fully realize that even during such 'noble' struggles as the 2nd World War, at best it was a mixture of self preservation and vested interest. There is no point in denying that.

But while the vested interest existed, we have the freedom to protest it, and change it without being sent to concentration camps and forced labor.
Your tone is suggestive that you think we have arrived at or are nearing such a situation re Anti Terror Laws, but having looked at them, I don't believe that.

Oh.. you made a good point that if we cannot 'put' Christian faith in peoples hearts by force, (it could never be any other way) where does that leave us ?.. indeed. It leaves us at the mercy of the 'rule of law' which will be interpreted and applied by people without faith, and thus without a divine constraint on the direction of interpretation. A worrying situation for sure.

cheers mate.

The milk of human kindness overfloweth again with the wonderful paranoid D B and Arjay.

DB, in July 1997 a young woman called Ms Zhu Qing Ping was bound and gagged, put on a plane and sent by force to China after 4 years in Port Hedland without trial or charge.

Two weeks later the abortion police tracked her down, held her down, murdered her 38 week baby in her womb and threw her out on the streets to survive the best she could.

Is that what you mean when we were saved by hordes Chinese women claiming persecution under the 2nd child law? Her first child was born in jail here, she pleaded with DIMA to allow her to have her baby here and then she would go.

Not good enough for nice, compassionate Australia. Is that what you mean? We would imprison any person in Australia for killing a 38 week viable foetus. Is this acceptable because this poor woman was Chinese?

You make me fairly sick mate.

Marilyn,in case you haven't noticed we are a country of 20 million in a world of 6.5 billion.In other words for every single Australian there are over 3200 others of which many live in poverty.

How is it that we are the bleeding heart country who has a falling birth rate in real terms ,have to take responsibility for every other country's lack of discipline in the population stakes?

You are being very selective about which suffering you want to observe.You won't argue realities outside your properganda realm because it interfers with your agenda of destroying the social and economic fabric of this country.

You have just ignored my questions on who will better secure the oil for the rest of our humanity better than the US and what practical solutions do you envisage for the Middle East.All we hear from you is selected injustices in other countries with no consideration for broader solutions that will benefit billions of people and not your selection of injustices that is aimed at amplifying your importance.

If you are capable of looking at the broader power plays in the world today,tell us what you would do if you were President of the USA.

Err, Attn: Marylin Sheperd

Did you know that in the NT, they kill 17 fetusus per week. On a Thursday.

Did you know that the NT goverment has just debated making the fetocide rate higher.

Did you know that it is NOT thought to be a criminal act of the State.

There are less than 100,000 women in the NT and they committ fetocide.

There are more than 500,000,000 women in China.

Just thought youd like to know.