Aspro and la1985- good to see some people with humour and sense here. I wasn't going to post here at all, but you have inspired me to paste something I found on Crickey for your entertainment:

"We've heard a lot (probably too much) recently about so-called Australian values. But what about un-Australian values?

Yesterday a sports official suggested in Crikey that the car company Holden, by flying a heavily-branded blimp over the MCG on Grand Final Day, was acting in an un-Australian way because its rival Toyota was chief sponsor of the event. But that un-Australianess is nothing compared to the real thing:

The new IR laws are "divisive, extreme, unfair and un-Australian" - Kim Beazley.

Criticising the federal government over its detention of asylum seekers shows an "un-Australian lack of concern for sovereignty and security" - John Howard.

Sleep deprivation is dangerous and un-Australian - Greens Leader Bob Brown.

Not eating lamb is un-Australian - Sam Kekovich in a Meat and Livestock Australia ad.

Killing people who refer to you by nickname is un-Australian - blogger James Bone.

Suggesting there's an anti-intellectual climate in Australia is un-Australian - actor/cultural commentator Jeremy Sims.

The concept of spectators at the Brisbane Gabba "dobbing in a yobbo” by using their mobile phones to alert authorities to any unruly crowd members may be regarded as un-Australian - Queensland Cricket chief executive Graham Dixon.

John Howard's "new nationalism" reflects an Australia which is, at its heart, un-Australian - Christopher Bantick.

It's un-Australian to prevent southerners from migrating to Queensland -Bernard Salt.

The Sydney race riots were un-Australian - The Forum on Australia's Islamic Relations (FAIR).

Not to be interested in the AFL Grand Final is un-Australian - HG Nelson."

Cripes.

What FrankGol said, basically.

No wonder we have social problems.

Better to go back one century rather than the fourteen we'd go back if one particular ideology became dominant in this country.

Not mentioning any names though.

TurnRight... you have the situation summed up rather well.. basically
1/ agree
2/ agree
3/ agree.

Mr Justice..
in one sense you are right.. but its a ‘minimalist’ approach to social integration/acceptance. I support an introduction to and examination on ‘Australian Culture’ because while law is one thing, culture is quite another.

An example I often use is from my wifes culture. If you ask one of her people ‘Hey mate..whats ur name’ he will almost CHOKE. because it is not culturally acceptable to ask a person straight out, their name. You ask another person. Thus, in Australia, we have many customs which have nothing to do with ‘law’ but MUCH to do with social intercourse.
People from a conservative Muslim background would be shocked at the open display of nudity and shameless sex on TV. At least they and I agree on that one, but a warning would be in order regarding the current status quo.

Frank.
Sages colorful adjectives probably don’t advance the debate much but they do make entertaining reading. I still managed to see his point. Onya Sage.

I defend my position Frank from your implicit charge of ‘Anglo-ethnocentrism’ because it is not ‘ethnocentric’ for a host of a home to welcome visitors under his roof under his cultural terms. Its simple common sense and good manners. Ethnocentrism would be where I maintain some peculiar notion of white cultural superiority. There is much I’d like to see change, and for the better. It would do so as we experience and see the benefits of some other cultures in our midst, but it should happen by intermarriage and social osmosis.

I would NEVER expect Asian parents to put their newborn child in ‘Aussie style’ solitary confinement in a separate room while it cries itself to sleep. I wish Aussie families and young parents realized how much anguish they would save themselves by simply keeping a young baby in the parents room for 8 months or so. When I saw this approach in Malaysia myself, I then tried it and had 3 trouble free babies.

Angelo.... Hi5!

Banjo and Hamlet (and Fans),

How about some real examples rather than baseless emotive arguments to cloud the issue.

Having said that, I may be in agreement with you on some things.

Banjo says,


1. Our political system, our laws and our judicary are all based on the British democratic system.

3. Our laws take precedence over any religous or cultural dictations: couldn’t agree more!

Multiculturalism, in words of Stepan Kerkyasharian, the Chairman CRC NSW:

"Multiculturalism recognises that the people of NSW are of different linguistic, religious, racial and ethnic backgrounds who, either individually or in community of other members of their respective groups, are free to profess and practice their heritage.

"All individuals in NSW irrespective of their linguistic, religious, racial and ethnic backgrounds must demonstrate a unified commitment to Australia, its interests and future. They must recognise the importance of shared values governed by the rules of law within a demographic framework."

In relation to point 3, also have a read of my August op-ed published in SMH about the laughable federal idea of creating an Islamic institute of leadership http://www.saeedkhan.org/news/2160.html


2. Our main types of music, entertainment and sports are Westernised. Not sure.

Australia's most popular choice of "westernised' music, rock and roll, is based on the music imported into America by black african slaves that went on to become soul and jazz. It has also influenced Country and Western and even contemporary Christian rock groups.

Acknowledging Multicutluralism as the failed experiment it is isn't going backwards, but it is a step forward and away from those living in denial..

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=71

Some will no doubt read this and try to jump in and say that I back the policy of Multiculturalism. Well I don't... and that would be disingenuous of them to do so. Mutliculturalism encourages cultural diversity, I prefer encouraging cultural unity. A nation should be united... not divided. Division does not strengthen a society.

No doubt, when I remark on our "Anglo" roots, and that is inevitable, those same people will again jump in and say that proves we have no "Australian" culture... and that it is in fact another distortion of the truth.

One would not say that American culture is English culture, yet the US like Australia had primarily British heritage as it roots. America is not that much older than Australia either so that old flawed argument about us being a young country and having no culture... also holds no water. In fact, no country in the "Anglosphere" has an identical culture. (The Anglosphere is a group of English-speaking nations which share historical, political, and ethnocultural characteristics rooted in or attributed to the historical experience of the British people. Primarily; Australia, Britain, Canada, the United States, India, New Zealand, and South Africa.)

Is Australian culture Indian? Canadian? American? South African? etc.... The answer is clearly no. Yet we all share similarities and people from these cultures would find it easier to "fit in" to each others societies because of that sharing.