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The Forum > Article Comments > Where it is a criminal offence to convert to Christianity ... > Comments

Where it is a criminal offence to convert to Christianity ... : Comments

By George Thomas, published 23/10/2006

Hindu extremists have passed anti-conversion laws in some Indian states - more are set to follow.

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It is morally offensive to harm a person for their spiritual or religious beliefs. Well, it should be. However, it is such a con from the Christian Institutions to complain about hardship inflicted upon them by other's. Not only for their history of torture, sexual offences, etc, but for how they think in today's world.

I went into a live chatroom a few days ago where Christian's and Muslim's were abusing each other, calling each other 'dog rapists' and worse. There were alway Jewish people laying the bait. This is all very sad.

For those who aren't monotheists, the big three(Christian/Muslim/Jew) life is to be hard harsh. There are many who wish to see us Pagans(etc) killed off or thrown into prison. As a pagan myself, I've had people who were friends suddenly refused to be near me when they found out I'm pagan, some of them verbally abusing me instead. Even declaring that we should wear symbols so people know what we are when they see, as well as having us banned from having children.

Fight! Fight! Fight!

That is all the religious institutions want to do.
Posted by Spider, Monday, 23 October 2006 3:56:00 PM
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Dear George,

I think you are not fair. I won’t say that what you said is a lie, but half-truth is worse than a lie. I agree that all the examples you have given about Hindu atrocities on Christians are not wrong, but they obscure one major aspect of the story you are telling. You did not tell that how such anti-conversion legislations in States of Madhya Pradesh, Gujarat and Chhattisgarh and Rajasthan were opposed by tooth and nail by secular Hindus. In Chhattisgarh, Madhya Pradesh and Rajasthan legislations could not become laws because of their opposition. In, Tamil Nadu the provincial government was forced to withdraw the law and the party that had brought the legislation eventually lost power.

Now about the unfortunate incident of Stains murder. The accused in the case was given a lifer. About the shameful incident gang rapes of nuns (in Jhabua in 1998) the perpetrators of the crime were arrested. The motive of the crime was loot not religious bias and the accused included convert Christians as well. They belonged to a tribe called Bhil that has a hundreds of years old history of committing crime.

When you talk about untouchablility I don’t deny that it is not there. But, again at the same time as an Indian journalist I can tell you that because of growing political awareness in dalits none of the two main national parties could form government on their own. Yes, the social scene is far from pleasant and equitable, but struggles for such a society in equally intense. India may be an old civilisation but you must not forget that it is a new country, which is trying earnestly to evolve.
Posted by Avinash Dutt, Monday, 23 October 2006 9:40:46 PM
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Avinash.. good to see some gaps filled in there.
The Stains by the way were from my own Church tradition. We don't have any hate toward Hindu's for the murder, it 'goes with the territory' of proclaiming Christ.

C.J. (ooops.. caps :)... in the case of Christianity the problem is not 'fundamentalism' but wrongly driven fundamentalism. One can examine the fundamentals of Islam and emerge with swords swinging yelling Jihad-Jihad and be quite faithful to those fundamentals. The same cannot be said about Christ.
Hitler used the incident of Jesus cleansing the temple to justify slaughtering Jews. His interpretation was clearly wrong and misguided. More importantly, his interpretation could not be related to the text, so it was more him just imposing a view "on" the text of his own choosing.

Some criticism of groups using Christ for a label in India and other places is justified, but protestant evangelical groups primary goal is conversion/salvation through proclaiming the Gospel, and this is often supplmented by medical aid projects. The gospel is made known to patients, but it is always a choice issue. Aid is not withheld to those rejecting Christ. Aileen Coleman in Jordan has run a hospital for decades and has the blessing and support of the Queen and all the Bedoins. She shares Christ with them and they love her deeply. She crys with them, and rejoices with them, and they know for whom she stands. One of her colleages was murdered by a Muslim fanatic.
http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/stories/s299612.htm

CRUSADE WATCH statements like "Missionaries dont lift anyones spiritual understanding" barely warrant a response, but my wife's people might argue with you. They were dying out until they went and asked some Aussie Missionaries to share Christ with them, now they are a vibrant progressive people in Malaysia.

*checks for un-neccessary caps* :)
Posted by BOAZ_David, Tuesday, 24 October 2006 6:48:08 AM
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Thanks brother BD - yes I did mean the untouchables who are lowest than low in the caste system in India. Judging from the many spelling mistakes in my previous post I must have been (as I often am) not very focussed. Too many projects happening at once in my life right now.

BTW – speaking of injustices, it is interesting to hear how some Bali bombers were pardoned in celebration of the end of the Islamic month of Ramadan. Obviously that “justice” is only available for certain people in Indonesia and not for others like our Aussie drug mules. Islamic law in action.
Posted by coach, Tuesday, 24 October 2006 7:29:47 AM
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Quick definitions
(morals)
noun: motivation based on ideas of right and wrong .

(values)
noun: beliefs of a person or social group in which they have an emotional investment (either for or against something)

(immoral)
adjective: violating principles of right and wrong
adjective: morally unprincipled (Example: "Immoral behavior")
adjective: marked by immorality; deviating from what is considered right or proper or good
adjective: not adhering to ethical or moral principles

I think some are wandering a tad off-subject.

The article proposed that Jesus was then, and might still even today have cause to be, considered immoral ( by those who had 'ultimate' power over human life and death and who had the greatest say into what was officially 'right and wrong' for the general populace).

For those without the wit to tell - the author was trying to raise debate about what our current values are based upon and he did so using the established literary practice of irony. He was not trying to prove Jesus was morally unprincipled, but that he violated the principles of right and wrong imposed upon the people by both an occupying army of Rome and by the rich and unscrupulous religious leaders of the Jews.

I feel that many of Australia's leaders and community voices are corrupting what is 'right and wrong' in our society by slavishly acquiescing to those values of the leaders of other nations, such as America, and are claiming 'Christian' moral high ground when they in fact fail to follow even a single principle the True founder of Christianity has been reported to have possessed as shown by his deeds and actions - not just his words.

As Jesus showed - (I am the Way) we are bound to follow, through our own hearts, the will of Our Father over the will of hypocritical leaders interested only in power, position and wealth and to not just do what others tell us is right.
Posted by BrainDrain, Tuesday, 24 October 2006 2:56:33 PM
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OOPS! windows blooper - posted to wrong article! My Apologies

see http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=5015
Posted by BrainDrain, Tuesday, 24 October 2006 3:05:50 PM
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