Why did the Phalangists attack Sabra and Shatila? Marilyn claims that they did this under instructions from the wicked IDF.

It is still not clear to me why a Christian group would attack Muslims in their own country just because the IDF told them.

And please no one reply with vulgarities or generalised remarks about "the Zionists".

And fleurette your claim that most religious Orthodox Jews claim that the idea of a Jewish state is preposterous and use the Jews in Iran as a perfect example flies in the face of almost everything I have read on the subject. It sounds like "Palestinian propoganda" to me.

I don't think Rabbi Yisroel Dovid Weiss agrees with that last statement about his view being Palestinian propaganda.

I have read accounts of Orthodox Jews disagreeing with the state and its actions. Maybe what you are reading is published by the same group that Ted works for. But you must understand that Israel is not run by its religious body despite the claim of it being a Jewish state. This only describes the ethnicity of the state - for that is what Israel is - an ethnocracy.

The conflict between religion and the secular in Israel is quite significant. The ultra-Orthodox Jews (the Haredim) fail to integrate into Israeli society because they place their allegiance to God well before their loyalty to a Jewish state and its secular laws. Secular and religious laws exist in uncomfortable parallel because the government needs to hide group you have to worry about.
behind its religious groups. Otherwise they can no longer propagate views about the Promised Land! (what a shame) Thus we continue to think religion is somehow linked to this conflict when it's the secular.

"It is still not clear to me why a Christian group would attack Muslims in their own country just because the IDF told them."

Because the IDF didn't just tell them to and that's it. They led them to believe that the Palestinians were the enemy, they support the PLO (Hezbollah, Hamas, Al Qaeda, Excuses Excuses). Not to mention they are Muslims wanting to convert the poor Christians and take over their country! (just like Hezbollah apparantly).

In other words, Israel strategically gained an ally in the Lebanese Christians and pushed onto them a narrow and bigoted view of the Muslims which still continues to this day.

It's still not clear to me why young Israelis with a conscience are being vilified because they refuse to serve in compulsory military service in the occupied territories. Because they refuse to ostracise, terrorise and victimise the already persecuted Arabs? Maybe you should read some accounts of Israeli soldiers who have said no. Very interesting.

fleurette

My comment about Palestinian propaganda was mentioned tongue in cheek, a reply to those who scream Zionist propoganda. But the number of orthodox Jews who do not support Israel is a tiny minority. The Haredim are a sect and way out of line with any form of modern mainstream Judaism.

I still cannot understand how Israel could have such an influence on the Lebanese Christians. They would be capable of thinking for themselves, if they chose to oppose the Muslims it could only be because they felt themselves threatened. Please fleurette give them credit as thinking individuals. They made their own choice.

Regarding the position of Jews in Iran it is generally not considered very good as far as jewish scholarly sources are concerned.

Regarding ethnicity of Jews this is a difficult issue because Jewish cultures and DNA differ so widely. The point is that there exist a large number of Jews in Israel many of several generations. Their unwillingness to allow another religious group to become a majority is mirrored in all other countries. For examle all of Europe and America insists on Christianity to be dominant and Iran would hardly accept anything but a Muslim majority.

Also religions dominate the law in most societies just look at some Australian political attitudes to abortion, stem cell research and homosexuality. Israel does have a post-enlightenment society and wants to keep it that way. Vilification of soldiers who choose to opt out from what the majority see as necessary for protection is unfortunate but Israel is relatively enlightened in this aspect as countries go.

The christians didn't want the Palestinian refugees in Lebanon that is why they collaborated with the IDF under Ariel Sharon to kill them. Goodness me do some people live in a bubble of blindness?

Belgium conducted an enquiry just a few years ago and held Sharon culpable as a war criminal. Phalangists still cower in Israel because the Lebanese muslims will tear them to shreds and Ruddock gave expedited visas to some 200 SLA and their families just a few years ago on the basis they "are christian". That all came out in a senate inquiry - you people really need to learn to read.

Now we get to cluster bombs. An IDF rocket commander says "what we did was insane and monstrous, we dropped 1,800 cluster bombs with 1.2 million bomblets using inaccurate rocket launchers and phosphorous bombs which are illegal".

Ted, got any answers yet because believe me you don't scare or intimidate me as you seem to think you can do.

Marilyn, there you are!

Watch by yourself how Hizbollah launches attacks from civilan areas and hide behind women and children.

1. Graphic images smuggled out from Lebanon show how Hezbollah is waging war amid suburban homes

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,19960056-5006301,00.html

2.The UN humanitarian chief accused Hizbullah of "cowardly blending" among Lebanese civilians and causing the deaths of hundreds during two weeks of cross-border violence with Israel.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid=1153291989232

3. Hezbollah hides in civilian places to launch its rockets

Watch this clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aur_DmTIw70

obozo

You are wasting your time. Marilyn will only claim that the site is a US or Zionist misrepresentation. (Hezbollah never does such a thing). If you are lucky she will insult you.

If the Lebanese Christians really did kill Muslims or Palestinians why is that? Such awful things can happen when people consider themselves threatened.

And Marilyn why do you think that Ted Lapkin is trying to scare or intimidate you? Are you so important? I know I am not. He probably respects your work helping the refugees as do we all. But please forget your extreme hatred of the West.