Fleurette

I hope you don't live in Australia. You would have a conscience living in a land which was taken from the indigenous inkabitants and settled by foreigners with guns.

And at least there were Jews in Israel prior to 1788. And I am not talking about those that were there during the Roman Empire, I am talking about later immigrants arriving during the Caliphate and the Otterman Empires.

In fact you will also have sympathy for the Copts in Egypt - pushed out by Arab invasions and encouraged to leave - ask some of them what they think. And the Jews who entered Iran and Iraq when these ancient lands were called Persia and Babylon and were still there in the middle of the 20th Century. Many of them have fled to Israel after some ghastly experiences. Have they a right to start a resistance movement to claim their historic rights and the houses which they had to leave.? How would you recommend they do this? Or did they do the sensible thing in moving on and getting a life.

And of course don't forget the German populations pushed out of Poland. And can you tell me why Christians, recently a majority in Lebanon are now outnumbered by Muslims. Had this anything to do with emigration? Ask some of them.

Once Egypt and Jordan stopped attacking Israel they were left alone, Israel at least has a good track record in that respect.

The usual, tired Zionist finger pointing exercise from illogic: you think we're bad, look at this or that lot, all 'issues' about which you know nothing and care even less, unless they can be used as a smokescreen for the latest Israeli acts of bastardry.

Big Ted wrote the usual AIJAC propaganda piece about Lebanon. Care to defend the carpet bombing of that land, the 100,000 cluster bomblets strewn all over the south (much of it after the announcement of a ceasefire), the ongoing, sadistic strangulation of the Gazans, maybe the Israeli study that found Israelis had a far higher regard for Nasrallah's honesty than that of their own spindoctors?

No? I thought not.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/760138.html

Logic, here are some of Big Ted's buddies at work, aren't they nice? This is exactly what the IDF have been doing for decades with the cheer squad of the west egging them on. I saw a film on SBS tonight of how they reacted though when they were fired on by Hezbollah - didn't have a clue what to do and ran away.

Logic, Jonathan Cook is reporting from Nazareth, Lapkin is a former part of the problem.

Perhaps you don't know he was with the Jewish Lobby in the US, now here after he was in the IDF in Lebanon during their first invasion.

He has not answered a single question about his role - that is did he used planagists to murder Palestinian refugees? Did he help to create the Hezbollah? Did he help to deport the Palestinians to Tunis?

If Ted wants to spin his tripe he should spin it to people incapable of reading.

Now he and Julie Bishop are getting all hysterical about a book claiming that the US and Israel are terrorist states. Go figure.

Marilyn

I'm wearying of your (and Strewth's)constant bias and selective history about the Sabra and Shatila executions.

I promise.. every time you mention them, if I see it I will equalize the playing field by mentioning the GENOCIDE AT DAMOUR carried out in 1976 by the Palestinians. 500+ Christians murdered, and 25,000 ethnically cleansed. Were those christians in any way like the PLO military support structures inherrant in Sabra and Shatila ? I don't recall any Christian leader claiming as Arafat did "Every Palestinian is a fighter... Men,women and children" Of course.. the many images of 3 yr old Palestinian boys on their fathers shoulders with toy AK47's don't exactly detract from this portrayal.

The Palestinians IN those camps were there because they were driven there by the Jordanians who were sick of them murdering Jordanians and trying to TAKE OVER the State.

The idea that the Palestinian women and children are 'innocent' is ludicrous. The men cannot exist or replace lost fighters without them.
The Palestinians in those camps, whether men women or children, were just as culpable as the men who slaughtered the children and grannies in Damour. Its just that 'their time' had not yet come.
If you think 'Women' are not just as evil and brutal as men, read about Walid Jumblatts grandfathers sister who supervised and rejoiced over one of the early massacres of Maronites by their Druze fighters. circa 1860

So, the Phalangists who attacked Sabra and Shatila.. geee.. maybe just MAYBE many of them had to bury their children and grandparents hacked to pieces after being raped by the Palestinians....

The POINT in all this, is that as much as you accuse 'Big Ted' of being 'zionist this and biased that..and spin the other thing' .. you and Strewth are just as guilty.

Bottom line, history will sort itself out there, and I absolutely guarantee one thing. No matter which way it goes, there will be those who feel totally pissed off with the outcome and will use force to try to change it......life goes on.

B_D
Please explain why the Palestinians were in Jordan and not in Palestine. Could it be that they were driven out of their homes to enable the Israelis to take over.

DB you are a crashing bore when you bring this religious tripe into everything.

Now lets get down to the three year olds with guns in Palestine. Gee, I am so shocked.

My own father, uncles, brother, and every boy in every place I have ever lived has toy guns, they play cowboys and indians, they brandish them at passersby.

Not in Palestine but here. You need to stop being so one sided for christians and be a bit more balanced. No killing is a good thing but christians don't seem to have any problem at all in slaughtering children, babies, anyone as long as they do it from the cowardly distance of 35,000 feet from a bomber or as in Haditha and dozens of other places in Iraq in their own homes - and then cover it up.

The massacres at Shatila and Sabra were particularly a heinous crime because the IDF used christian Lebanese people to murder innocent Palestinian refugees under the eye of Ariel Sharon.

Did you know DB that one of these phalangist creeps came to Australia claiming to be a refugee from persecution because of his role in these massacres and was allowed to live freely in the community for some 14 years without being charged but at the same time we locked up Palestinian babies, some born here, on the basis that their parents dared to be refugees who could not go home to Gaza?

The article by Gideon was a statement of facts as he saw them - you should try reading the Haaretz talkback where, like you, they blame the victims.